this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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When the story was that this was a lethal attack by the IDF with hundreds of casualties, there was nothing funny about this. Now that most credible sources in the first world agree that the IDF was probably not at fault for this particular atrocity (yeah yeah death to the first world and hail Xi & Putin etc, if you're one of those people just kindly stop reading), now it's suddenly time to turn this into a joke and short-circuit people's critical thinking. "ha ha, 'we didn't do it', sounds like a made up claim that the person who did it would say". What a genius master stroke of insight.
You know what, I now have newfound respect for the people who at least put in the work to argue that the rocket geolocations were fabricated, the Hamas operative convo discussing the malfunctioning rocket was by paid actors, etc etc. At least they are making an argument, which a reader can evaluate and decide whether they believe. This headline is exactly as productive as if they'd written "Hamas reports deadly Israeli airstrike with 3000 victims at the house of You, The Reader". What a disgrace.
Someone's heated that everyone knows their favorite genocidal ethnostate did the thing they said they would do.
It's the Onion, bro. It's satire. Why you so mad?
The evidence is pretty overwhelming at this point that it was not an Israeli airstrike, and was most likely a failed missile from Hamas. I say this as someone who considers both Hamas and the current right wing government of Israel to be terrorist organizations.
There have been plenty of actual crimes committed by Israel in this war and many more in the years leading up to it. It just doesn't look like this is one of them.
If you actually buy the US-Isreali line on this, I simply don't know what to tell you. The Isreali defence minister called Palestinians animals, said that they shouldn't distinguish between Hamas and any other Palestinian, and have spent the last 2 weeks indiscrimiately bombing the strip, airstriking ambulances, bombing crossings, double and triple-tapping apartment buildings, striking aid convoys, bombing critical infrastructure, displacing a million people, and bombing captive Isrealis.
Meanwhile, this "It was actually a Hamas rocket that blew up" line has been played and debunked a thousand other times in a thousand other Isreali atrocities, and I will bet you any amount of money that it turns out it was them.
THEY LIVETWEETED THEIR BOMBING OF THE HOSPITAL THEN DELETED THE TWEETS AND SAID HAMAS DID IT.
No, "they" didn't do that. It was done, but not by anyone who would necessarily know.
Read my comment again. I'm no Israeli apologist and yeah, they have committed many war crimes and atrocities. That doesn't automatically mean that they did this. If Israel were to shot a missile at the hospital, they would hit the hospital, not the parking lot. If an Israeli missile hit the parking lot, the clay tiles on the hospital roof wouldn't be intact. Based on Israeli drone footage that matches up with Palestinian photographs, this explosion was almost certainly not an Israeli missile.
Just assuming the worst of Israel in every case does not make you an effective critic of Israel. It just feeds the Israeli narrative that their critics are just biased by antisemitism. There is no shortage of confirmed atrocities to blame them for, including the settlements that keep inflaming this conflict.
Israel was photographed loading dumb bombs on their jets the day before this. They are running low on guided options after using so many so fast.
Learn about how airbusrst has different effects than a standard ground burst. Then ask yourself why you wish to believe the stronger military force didn't cause a huge explosion, when the weaker military force has no known capabilities to make such an explosion.
You don't think airbursts have shockwaves that break tile roofs? The video didn't look like an airburst but, if it was, it would have had to have been right at roof level. There were also scorch marks in the parking lot that were indictive of the burning off of unspent rocket fuel.
There is no evidence that the explosion was larger than what Hamas weaponry can produce.
There was a fire caused by the blast. You can see the bent down roofs on many of the cars in the parking lot that matches the angle of an air burst pressure wave.
Keep lapping up the propaganda if that's your kink though.
lmao kindly name the type of military hardware Hamas has that could have caused that explosion. I'll wait.
An R160. You seem to imply that the explosion was particularly devastating, but it really wasn't - at least not in comparison to what Israel is using. The clay tile roof of the hospital next to the parking lot that got hit was intact. A JDAM shockwave would almost certainly have shattered those tiles.
lmao an R160 managed to kill 500 people when one has literally never managed to even kill 10 before? Come on. You're not even subjecting these claims to basic common sense.
PS: It was likely an antipersonnel munition, and it burst in the air; the tiles are irrelevant, you credulous fool.
What 500 people? That is entirely unconfirmed, you incredulous fool.
You act like I'm an Israeli apologist, and I'm not. Fuck Israel. They are ultimately at fault for creating and infling this conflict. If anything, I side with the Palestinians, though not Hamas. Still, I'm going to judge the mechanics of particular incidents on their own merits.
No one who believes the (absurd and obviously false, in this case) lies of genocidal monsters is on the side of the Palestinians, full stop, especially if you think it's wrong for Hamas to use violence against the oppressors.
PS: I love how you're more ready to be skeptical of Palestinians claims about number of deaths than you are of Israeli claims of innocence.
You can't trust PR being put out by either side in a conflict. My opinions are based entirely on what experts have to say based on evidence that has been confirmed by both Israel and Palestinians.
I posted my opinion of this conflict as soon as it started. Check my history if you think I'm pretending for credibility purposes. Israel is an oppressor, and both sides are terrorists, targeting and killing civilians. I'll even say that if Israel had a strategic or tactical reason to bomb the hospital that they wouldn't even hesitate. It's well within their character to do so. My assumption going in was that they probably did it, but I'm now almost entirely convinced that they didn't.
On the topic of Genocide, it is explicitly the goal of Hamas (not the Palestinian people generally) to commit genocide against Israel. That's not enough to blame them for every attack on Israel.
Why would I need to check your history? You're both-sides-ing a settler-colonialist genocide here. Hamas's goal is fighting off the Zionist entity, not genocide, and your acceptance of that horseshit claim makes clear that you believe anything the Western media tells you, hence your appeal to the authority of "experts" (all of whom are doubtless employed by, or at minimum enthusiastically on the side of, Western media companies or militaries) on this particular claim, rather than any independent thought.
PS: Since you're so dependent on "experts," here's some that argue the opposing side: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Did you even watch that video before linking it. It was just the typical "Israel says this, Hamas says this" shallow reporting with nothing but superficial analysis. It even concludes by saying that it is still unknown and that expert analysis is required - meaning it hadn't been done yet or they were unaware of it.
I support the Palestinian cause - insomuch as that cause is freeing the Palestinian people from Israeli oppression. I do not support the Hamas cause, of "Destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic theocracy in Palestine". That is their stated goal.
It's not "both sides" to accept the reality of the situation. It's two groups that want to annihilate each-other. The difference is that Israel has all the power and, instead they chose to provoke this conflict by continuing to steal land and treat Palestinians like prison inmates. Oppressive regimes always lead to conflict.
This is you, 42 minutes ago:
Anyway, I'm done. Enjoy being a stooge for genocidal powers you say you don't support. If this were a post on my home instance I'd be a lot more rude right now; as it is, all I'll say is that this experience, for me, is best encapsulated in this emote:
Both sides are humans therefore both sides are exactly the same, right? The words "both sides" don't by themselves indicate that someone is asserting equality. Both sides literally are terrorists. Both sides are not equally to blame for this conflict. Both sides are however responsible for their attacks on civilians.
Be rude as you like, but it won't make you any smarter.
Your proof is a fucking vlog. You have cited nothing except the Israeli narrative and your hemming and hawing doesnt take away from your total unciritcal support of Israeli lies
It's a pretty solid blog, and the blog references evidence you could look up yourself. It may be a blog, but that's way more evidence than anyone else here provided.
Bet you believed in the WMDs too
I bet you believed Russia would never invade Ukraine. I can tell this will be a productive discussion.
The idea of productive discourse went out the window when you decided to replay 2003. Your trust is entirely with Israel and media sources that cite the IDF uncritically.
LOL, yeah, sure, I trust Israel. This entire conflict is their fault. They are the oppressors, and they held all the cards required to make a better future. Ultimately they are at fault for the deaths on both sides. This discussion is just about the details of a particular incident.
You are literally parroting the Israeli line verbatim subject to no critical thought whatsoever.
I'm literally not.
what evidence
https://youtu.be/vHuNmDGb5eU?si=miVPLpX7yG2yi2co
Ooo, I can play this game too: https://hexbear.net/post/251036
The "ad hominem" game? No, I wasn't playing that. I'm just about the only one in this thread who hasn't.
Hey lurkers, the moment you see the phrase 'everyone knows that' stop reading and go look the thing up. Seriously, a single google search. Open a new tab and go google it. Click on a variety of sources. Be fair and also read the Al-Jazeera article, which last I heard still blames Israel. Don't let some rando on a social media site tell you what 'everyone knows'.
Now. Couples on the verge of divorce do this thing. 'Who the fuck cares about the details or about who's right in this particular instance. Let's zoom out into the grand, very well argued, story of why I am in the right, and you are in the wrong and also an asshole. Fine, you didn't snoop in my cell phone like I accused you when we started this argument, but you might as well have, and you've done worse before anyway'. This is very cathartic and gratifying, but it is not productive.
Why care about satire? Satire is a powerful force for exposing truth. All good satire has a grain of truth in it, and delivers that grain to the reader wrapped in a reductio ad absurdum: you believe X, but let's take that to its logical conclusion. Not so reasonable now. In this case: You believe Israel's denials, but let's take that to its logical conclusion. Not so reasonable now. I suspect you know this. I suspect if a satire argument attempted to deliver a payload you disagreed with you would also suddenly concede that things like this are more than just a prank, bro.
I also sigh deeply at the attempt to make this about a psychoanalysis of me as a person. This is the year of our lord 2023. Everyone is angry. I am sure you are also angry about plenty of things. This is not meant as a general defense of Israel, of the Israeli government, of Israeli opinions about the conflict. Rest assured that I know plenty about the exact moral failings of the Israeli public and the current ruling coalition, and could write about my grievances with them at length and in great detail. But this "we've decided who the bad guys are, inconvenient facts not allowed" mode of thinking -- no. I won't stand for that. Fuck that noise.
please don't jerk off in public. it's gross and nobody wants to see you.
I Googled and I found this:
and this:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/18/israel-unlawful-gaza-blockade-deadly-children
Why would Israel make up a fake phone call if they didn’t do it? Use some critical thinking
The source is "Trust me bro" from the IDF cited uncritically by news sources. Did you also believe there were WMDs in iraq and that anyone who didn't fall for it was stupid?
Which ones? The ones that are still trying to find Saddam's WMDs?
I was saying "death to the first world"
Ate the onion