this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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I think they're implying this mostly hit Hezbollah members, not than none of the victims were innocent.
That said, you do know Hezbollah is basically the same as Israel, just without the backing of the USA, right? They also want genocide. The way this was dealt with was one of the best options when dealing with a group that wants to genocide your country. It also shows Israel chose to start the war with Hamas, and likely allowed the October 7 attack to happen, if they've had this capability all along.
The dad who's girl died literally brought this on himself. He chose religious fanaticism over family. He's in Lebanon, not Gaza, not West Bank - he could have chosen not to be part of a group that wants to wipe out a whole nother group. This is on him the same way it's on an antivaxxer when they're kid gets sick. There's plenty of damn good reasons to wish Netanyahu dead and in hell, but this ain't one. I doubt him and his right wing extremist possé came up with this operation since they would have deliberately chosen something with way more innocent casualties.
Based on... what exactly?
The clear implication is that "number of Hezbollah member > victims = no innocent victims."
And then you instantly jump into defending genocide. Holy fucking shit I honestly can't communicate with words how disgustingly pathetic I find that.
No, I'm not gonna engage with your whataboutism and start arguing with you about how "Hezbollah deserved this absolutely pathetic terrorist attack."
"Brought it on himself brought it on himself"
You fuckers still haven't realised that Hammurabi's law makes the whole world blind, huh? That was almost 4000 years ago, ffs. Read a book, preferably a modern one and not some tome of propaganda from thousands of years ago.
You're literally defending the death of a 9-year old girl. You have to be sick in the fucking head to do that. Honestly.
And you should read Popper's Paradox of Tolerance.
Eye for an eye makes the world go blind only works when one party doesn't exist solely to exterminate another.
That's what Hezbollah is.
I have never defended genociders - you on the other hand keep defending Hezbollah.
The world needs to deal with Hezbollah the same way it needs to deal with Zionism and the same way it eventually dealt with the Nazis.
Tell me dumbass, do you think Netanyahu and co. will stop his campaign on Gaza if everyone decided not to retaliate? Or would he just order his men to take advantage of the situation and shoot them down? Do you think the Nazis or any other group, such as Hezbollah, intent on genocide would accept peace?
Of course ideally such corrupt evil fucks could be eliminated with no innocent casualties. But that's unfortunately not the way the world works. Do you think innocent casualties didn't occur when other fascist evils were fought? You think only military personnel were killed in WW2?
You're either a naïve kid, or have thought up of miracle solution like a death note.
This was a case of monsters fighting monsters; we're lucky that this at least was an actual very precise strike one monster did to the others, rather than their usual M.O. of just striking buildings with missiles.
Naive kid.
You're seriously saying "they deserve the 'eye-for-an-eye' treatment" while Israel is actively escalating the conflict?
Oh okay. So where have I done that? In assuming that 3000 civilians who were harmed weren't exclusively Hezbollah? Which would be an utterly ridiculous claim seeing how many literal children there are involved.
So.. you've never defended genociders. Then let's see if you will. Is Israel committing a genocide in Gaza?
I've actually been in the military and have had training on what is and isn't legal to do in armed conflict. Have you?
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule12
Rule 12. Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks
Rule 12. Indiscriminate attacks are those: (a) which are not directed at a specific military objective;
(b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or
(c) which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by international humanitarian law; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.
Which country's military? Because I'm more than willing to bet your country has killed innocents too, even if by accident. Depending on the country, like the USA, deliberately killing them too. Congratulations on choosing to actively participating in that horridness I suppose.
I see you weren't the reading comprehension guy in the military. But since you need it directly spelled out for your crayon eating ass to understand - yes, the Israeli government is committing genocide. You know who else is trying their hand at Genocide? Hezbollah.
But hey, while we have 'holier than thou' ex-military on the line, how about a bit of a trolley problem for you:
If you could dispose of Netanyahu along with the top heads of his genocidal campaign, at the cost of 10 children, would you? And just to make it even easier on you, let's add that doing so will end Israel's current war and genocide campaign too.
Finland. Go ahead and dig dirt. We have such a cruel and bloody history and we never do what we say or listen to laws. /S
You don't seem to understand what reading comprehension is, nor understand the existence of people who absolutely refuse to admit to Israel's warcrimes. Like the war crime they committed with this indiscriminate bombing, which can't be limited as international law requires.
International law is international law. And Israel is breaking it.
Edit oh and I'm not **ex-**military until I'm 60. Also, I was the company's quartermaster, which very much is a reading job for the most part.
Finnish Civil war of 1918. No country is without sin. That's not even getting into the Jaeger unit issues that existed in WW2 and the soldiers who kept working and then later joined the Nazis even afterwards.
Btw, why didn't you answer the trolley problem, coward? Because those are the kind of situations that can arise in conflict.
"No country is without sin" *mentions a civil war*
Wow, yeah, having struggled for our independence more than 100 years ago is what you're going with with this whataboutism, when we're discussing WAR CRIMES?
Wow what a great argument, definitely showed me my place, yeah. /S
Why didn't I answer your garbage attempt at rhetoric? Because you're ignoring actual international law to defend Israel's despicable attack on civilians. Something my country has NEVER done.
War is war, civil or not. I also mentioned WW2 since Finland did ally with the Nazis.
No, I'm giving you a moral dilemma to show you your own hypocrisy. Injuring thousands of Hezbollah members will save lives too - these are the people firing missiles at civilians as well (unless you're saying every Israeli is guilty, in which that says a lot more about how ducked up you are if true).
Hence I gave you a similar scenario. Because if the tables were turned - if someone managed to explode Netanyahu and co's phones and kill him, you'd probably be cheering even if children died, because it would mean a genocidal war would be halted.
You prefer the few rather than the greater good. And that always leads to more death rather than less. And quite frankly, makes you a shit military member to boot. Because it means if Russia did attack Finland, you'd prefer Putin alive if the opening for taking him out would kill a few innocents - even though letting him live would mean many more dying.
None of this exonerates Israel btw - an evil accidentally doing a net good doesn't stop that evil from being evil. But Hezbollah taking such a heavy hit with very few bystander casualties is a best case scenario, because the alternative - doing nothing - would have eventually led to more deaths.
War isn't war crimes.
Youre ignoring actual international law and think your 12th grade philosophy rhetoric is some fucking gotcha?
War isn't war crimes. I shouldn't have even engaged with this shitty whataboutism, but it's so laughable this is honestly entertaining. "War is war". Weirdly we've never had to resort to bombing civilians? The only thing you can manage to find is "you had a civil war and you got support from Germany (before having a war with them), thus you're just as morally bad as anyone who voluntarily massacre children, like Israel."
We weren't allies with Germany. You think that can't be true, since you know WWII history. But what you don't realise is you don't understand that like warcrimes, "ally" also has a definition. We were not allies with Nazis, we we're cobelligerents. Until we had to have a war with the fuckers cause they weren't happy with us not being in thrall to them. The fuckers burned Lappland.
I don't have anything better to do rn, so I might as well. This is absolutely moronic. No, I wouldn't be fucking cheering at anyone's death, and Netanyahu dying wouldn't even realistically stop the genocides, because why the fuck would it? Do you think he's the sole person pushing everyone else to do something they loathe? You haven't heard the "we're fighting human animals" from Israel's defense minister?
War is allowed. War crimes are not. How is this hard for you to understand? And how is it you honestly still cling to your, "every country has blood on their hands" and comparing mother fucking Finland to Israel, trying to equate them because we fought for our independence literally more than a century ago, and did no war crimes in the process.
How is that even remotely comparable to sending off bombs to be exploded in population centers with children?
Like how fucked up do you have to be to even be able to think that?
You: an eye for an eye makes the world blind
Also you: well war isn't that bad, it's war crimes that are bad!
Also, failing reading comprehension again, but to be fair English is your second language. I said Netanyahu and co., as in company, as in also the defense minister. Yes, that would manage to stop the genocidal war, because the rabid leadership that wants it would be dead, and politically they would have to scramble in order to maintain majority coalition.
For someone in the military you really don't seem to understand how modern warfare works, at all. A lot of modern warfare is urban now, not in fields - you know, places where non-combatants are. This is why Finland also offers civilian support training as an option for the mandatory regimen - such as learning how to build defences in city streets. **Even regular war occurs where there are children in modern times.**Even in ancient times. Hence, war is war. Children die in war, and your thick ass skull doesn't seem to get the root issue is war itself. War crimes are the ugliest thing of war, but war itself is already terrible.
Secondly, this wasn't just "sending off bombs to be exploded". This was a directed supply chain attack - it's not like grenades or rockets were just launched at city streets. They specifically infiltrated Hezbollah, convinced then to use Walkie Talkies and gave them tainted ones, that seemed to have also been tapped , then convinced them to use pagers as an extra precaution and gave them tainted ones too, then detonated those first rather than the walkie talkies to make them think the first form of communication was safe, then the walkie talkies. These were items designed to be carried around by the enemy, not indiscriminate bombing, and designed to disrupt and slow down their comms. Even without killing, it has incapacitated a huge amount of the enemy, and made them easier to identify by cross referencing hospital records with other Intel.
That is vastly different than what you imply. This if anything resulted in the least amount of casualties, considering the enemy combatants are mostly non-uniformed, and rarely attack directly in a front line.
Could you come up with a better way to deal with a zealot theocratic group also intent on genocide that fires missiles remotely and indiscriminately constantly at the general population that isn't directly starting a war in another country? Of course, you'll ignore this question just like every other thing I brought up that's extremely inconvenient for you to answer.
That's why I also brought up Finland and the Nazis - the Nazis just happen to be fighting the Soviets at the time didn't make the Nazis good, did it? Same here with Mossad fighting Hezbollah.
Warcrimes are warcrimes.
Ukraine isn't a bad nation for defending itself against Russia.
Israel is a garbage nation for the pathetic attacks they commit and the genocides they pull.
"I said AND COMPANY"
No you didn't, and we're on Lemmy, where it's beyond simple to look at your edit history
Or maybe you're an arrogant child, speaking out of their ass?
I've actually had training on fighting urban warfare. Training which included international law that's related.
Have you?
No. All you've done is suck the fat dick of Israeli propaganda. If you had the knowledge that I do, you'd cringe at pathetic these attempts at "rhetoric" are.
Israel is doing crimes against humanity.
No, this was way less targeted. Israel had zero idea who would end up near the devices even in the completely imaginary scenario where their information is perfect and every pager goes to Hezbollah, as you won't be able to know where the bombs are when you detonate them.
Cry more. No excuses for Israeli CRIMES.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/lebanon-establish-international-investigation-into-deadly-attacks-using-exploding-portable-devices/
Weird how international law experts agree with me — a person who received even rudimentary info on international law — and not with any of you pushing the "Israel did nothing wrong" side.
Isn't that weird? Almost as if all you've got is propaganda and lies.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/18/do-lebanon-explosions-violate-the-laws-of-war
We got actual laws (which Israel has agreed to, as a member of the UN)
Oh and I'm not ignoring any your third-grade rhetoric because it's "hard to answer", but because I'm all out of accommodating children for the week. Seeing you being serious with your rhetoric, with that level of rhetoric? I can't even describe it, really. I mean, do you know the feeling you get when you watch toddlers imitating adults, really earnestly? They're all serious in the face, they don't understand how cute and silly they're being? That's how I feel about your rhetoric. You don't understand how simple and childish it is.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state
They limited the attacks by replacing the pagers ordered by Hezzbollah, not the pagers ordered by anyone.
Are you dense?
Perhaps you didn't read the entire passage?
Or perhaps you don't know what those requirements are, because you don't care?
These can't. They had no way of limiting or even knowing where and whom the bombs would be around when they exploded.
You're talking out of your ass. By sending bombs only in pagers marked for Hezzbollah, as opposed to pagers to be sold generally in Lebanon, they were limited as required.
I'm not the one "talking out of my ass" so bad I get Hamas and Hezbollah confused.
I linked the international law. This attack breaks those laws.
"as required"
Aha, hmm, and what exactly are those requirements? (I know you've no idea, but I'll settle for you even looking them up and reading them even for trying to still defend Israel, because that'll still mean you'll at least have read them)
You have no clue what you're talking about. You're a real life Dunning Kruger curve.
I learned International law in law school and in my profession of decades, not from Googling links and pretending to be an expert.
I'm not going to call you an anti-semite for these bullshit arguments you read online because I know it's just that you're ignorant, but the reason many people would is because you are applying a heightened standard of law to Israel but not anywhere else, you are holding Israel to a standard that you do not apply to Iran and the violent pan-Islamist nationalists that it backs on all sides of Israel, and are willing to defend it when pan-Islamists do mass shootings and mass kidnappings of civilians, which is their new thing, ever since suicide bombings became faux pas.
Sure you did, bubba, sure you did.
You're not just random internet kid with a cringe username who gets Hezbollah and Hamas confused and kicks off a tantrum. Nope, youre definitely not that.
You're an expert in international law!
You did just call me an antisemite. You implied it. I think you might have to look that word up as well, despite your extensive training in "law school".
I'm holding Israel to international laws they've agreed on, as a member of the United Nations.
The the rest of your comment is more shitty whataboutism.
Projecting your own shit.
I don't think you understands what the word means. Literally.
Which is weird, given how you're definitely a grownup who's been through "law school" to "learn like lots and lota of international law."
Israel is breaking international law with their attacks.
This really isn't up for interpretation, but you can't accept it.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/lebanon-establish-international-investigation-into-deadly-attacks-using-exploding-portable-devices/
Bud Hezzbollah ordered 3,000 pagers for it's members specifically because they were moving away from cell phones.
How much more targeted do you want? I remember my first war.
"How much more targeted"
Than indiscriminate bomb attacks at population centers?
VERY much more targeted. This is no more accurate than looking at a phone book for addresses that people who may or may not have been associated with Hezbollah at some point and then bombing those apartment buildings, not caring who else lives there.
There are rules about war. Rules which you clearly have no idea of. No matter how despicable a terrorist organisation is, it doesn't mean it's morally okay for you to stoop to theirs fucking level.
Israel is a member of the UN, and has promised to obey these international laws as a part of the global community. If they want to say "fuck you we're allowed to kill however many civilians we happen to fucking kill with whatever flimsy excuse we may have", then soon Israel won't be a respected member of the global community, but another shitty terrorist state that everyone despises.
Is that what Israel said? No.
98% of Gaza is still alive after one year of all this indiscriminate bombing and genocide.
There's a very obvious reason why the civilian death toll and Gaza is so high and it's because that is the strategy of Hamas, to purposefully raise that number. They have literally no other leverage then to try and get as many people as possible killed while the elite Gazan's hide underground, and run to the ICJ and claim war crimes. Remember that first week of airstrikes last October, when Hamas launched a social media campaign to convince people that the evacuation warnings and airstrike warnings were a hoax?
Look how well it is working on you. Why are you siding with the view taken by Iran, Qatar, Malaysia, Turkey, Jordan, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Islamic State, all of them led by far right nationalists, dictators and monarchs, against the view taken by America, Canada, Australia, Japan, and France? That's not a red flag to you that maybe your moral compass has led you astray?
Maybe you're right, and you think the west should abandon Israel. You think they're just going to let their flawed democracy be taken over by insane religious fascists from Iran? No. Israel will turn Iran into a sheet of glass before they let Iranian soldiers March into Jerusalem. Tens of millions of people will die.
How sad are you going to be when Middle East states start attacking Israel and the resulting humanitarian and refugee crisis results in 50,000 people dying by lunch time, day in day out, for months or years?
I bet you'll be so sad that you won't even be able to post TikToks about it.
Are you on crack?
Oh wait no, you're smoking Israeli propaganda, even worse than being the worst of crack whores.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
Israel is a pos coward nation committing a genocide on defenseless women and children. I can't imagine anything more despicable and pathetic.
But you already knew this, since you've studied international law in... "law school". (:DDDD)
Honestly, our basic school system informed us more of international laws than your "law school" apparently did you. :D Not how the UN works, my brainwashed friend.
Then you spam a bit more whataboutism to excuse genocide. "No you don't understand, we have to genocide these people because they looked at us funny, so we're allowed to break international law"
Cmon mister "I-read-international-law-in-law-school"
What was the name of your school?? :DDD
You have a bunch of random sentences strung together. You haven't even attempted to refute a single thing I said and apparently cannot do basic math. You're at the peak of Mount Stupid looking down when you should be looking up.
You're like a bad text-bot based on some really shitty Reddit sub.
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to learn you're a teenager.
Your lies about having studied international law at "law school" are beyond ridiculous.
The way you speak of international law shows you know about as much about it as a 3-year old playing kitchen does about actual cooking.
Here, again.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule12
Can bombs going off in market places and other civilian locations be limited in that way? NO.
Does Israel breaking the humanitarian laws they've agreed to as a member of the UN mean Israel just "gets abandoned". Hmm.. how does it work in your society when someone does a crime? Are they just... "abandoned"? Or is there perhaps some sort of a system that deals justice based on the severity of the crime? (Having to write this is exactly what I mean about how ridiculous it is of you to lie that you have any training in law, let alone "law school" :D)
https://theintercept.com/2024/09/19/israel-pager-walkie-talkie-attack-lebanon-war-crimes/
Israel keeps doing crimes against humanity and you keep defending them. Like a brownshirt from the 30's. Eww.