this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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You dont get those changes by just blindly voting against the Republicans. You have to actually pressure your candidates into supporting what you want. Companies and lobbiests are able to do this with giant sacks of cash. Normal people do it by protesting and making demands of their officials to force a response. Showing nothing but contempt for anti-war protests is always a bad look for a president running for reelection.
Biden has all the leverage on Israel to make them stop the killing. He can threaten to pull military aid, send in US forces to distribute humanitarian aid, or put sanctions on Israel. All of those would stop the killing, making people angry at the US response willing to vote for Biden, paving a path for his re-election. Why are you so against him forcing Israel to stop the genocide if it is his only path to victory?
Single-issue voters always seem to want to fuck shit up for even everyone election year.
And every year- you people never seem to even really grasp the nuance of the single issue you whine about.
Sorry you think genocide ia an acceptable policy for the leader of the free world to support
Sorry that you think doubling down on genocide and starting a few new ones is an acceptable policy for voters in the free world to support.
Where have i said that I support doubling down? People thinkthat their vote doesn't matter as is. And asking someone who is already apathetic to voting to vote for someone who supports genocide isn't going to make them want to vote any more. It's a rigged game so they won't play. You should be mad at Biden for not trying to engage with those voters and instead locking them up and using police violence against them.
There are two choices in this coming election, effectively. Trump or Biden.
If one loses, the other wins.
You want to guess what contributing to Biden's loss will cause?
Go ahead. Take a few swings.
Someone who is already apathetic to voting is already not a very good target for voting outreach. You're not really making "Have the least reliable voting bloc since we started tracking such things be the lynchpin of the strategy to defeat fascism" sound any more reasonable than it was previously.
If they think it's a rigged game, what benefit will appealing to their desired policies have?
Oh God, not this line again. It doesn't matter that Biden at no point has advocated the use of police violence against peaceful protesters, he's definitely the one behind local police continuing the policy of being absolute shitheads, as they have for the past [checks notes] century and a half of US policing.
Thanks, Biden.
Yes, there are two choices. So i support people who are trying to make the less terrible one better. Meanwhile you want people to just shit up and support genocide.
Oh, is that what I want? I guess calling the Israeli genocide a genocide and advocating for the total removal of US aid from Israel is support of genocide.
Or is it because I don't regard Trump as winning as a reasonable alternative to Biden that makes me a genocide supporter?
No one is saying trump winning is preferable. They are saying it is inevitable if Biden continues down this path.
I can find you people saying exactly that while claiming to be left-wing.
Their proposal for course-correction is "If Biden takes up a position that is currently unpopular with the vast majority of Americans, including a majority of Democrats, his numbers will improve"
That's not very compelling.
It is this fucking simple.
You have never trumpers, that’s you, your vote is locked and Biden could dick down a toddler on live tv and you wouldn’t care. We can safely disregard these people, they are the Biden equivalent of magats.
So you can either try to get the people who support genocide on your side, or the people trying to stop it.
Either way, we get what we deserve because of the votes.
And apparently, your argument is that you should and must support never having a say in your government again because Biden is evil. Not that it will prevent an evil man from getting into the presidency; no, but you HAVE to punish Biden, no matter what rights you lose everyone else in the process!
I don’t have to punish anyone.
You aren’t asking me to punish someone, you are asking me to support someone:
I'm asking you to support not being under a fascist regime. I'm asking you to support being able to fight for the next four years without having to take up arms. I didn't realize "Please do this so we DON'T have to deal with the prospect of waging war in our own country if we want any sort of change away from a fascist regime" was going to be such a hard-fucking-sell to someone who opposes war.
You are asking me to support someone I disagree with on a fundamental level.
I won’t support either person who wants that. You guys can fight over which genocidal maniac runs the country.
I will keep working on supporting people from the bottom up who disagree with sending bombs to kill toddlers.
My payment is me and people I care about not being rounded up, tortured, expelled, or executed at some point during a second Trump administration. It's very valuable to me.
I don't give a fuck that the DNC is filled with listless, lazy, complacent, corrupt shitheads, because 'punishing' them for that by putting a metaphorical gun to my head and blowing my brains out just doesn't seem like a good calculus, especially since fascist regimes always have a place for listless, lazy, complacent, corrupt shitheads anyway, so it wouldn't be much of a punishment for the worst amongst them.
Because it's not his only path to victory, and it's not even certain that it IS a path to victory. A majority of DEMOCRATS, much less the general public, still approve of the current level of support to Israel or support INCREASED support to Israel.
Do I want Biden to pull out of Israel? Yes. Do I understand why the strategic political reasons why it's not being done, other than Biden being an old dinosaur? Also yes. Do I think that welcoming Trump into the White House will improve the matter? Fuck no.
Those voters who approve of funding Israel's genocide should really suck it up and vote for Biden even if he slashes funding. After all they aren't crazy "tankies" who would dare withhold their vote because they don't approve of what he's doing.
Then they deserve what they get!
If the majority would rather side with supporting genocidal actions, rather than peace, than America deserves to burn
Thanks for going mask off.
Yeah mask off.
To all the people supporting genocidal actions, we do no give a fuck what you think.
When you decide that you are not ok with sending more bombs to continue killing children then we can talk.
Until then I hope you all experience exactly what you want other people to.
So when members of Hamas, the current representative government of Gaza, talk about the genocide of the Jews, you say...?
Me, personally, I say that wishing democide on a population is fucking horrendous regardless of what that population supports, but I understand you tankies adore bloodshed more than I do.
I have said before and I will say again, they decided to launch attacks into civilian occupied areas without consideration.
The Israelis could have built a secure area with the help of the us military. Y’know the best of the best of logistics.
They could have built a base covered in camera and with food, water, power, and medical care.
It would have shown the whole world that they were actually only after Hamas.
Shit I was on Israel’s side in the beginning of this.
There is absolutely no justification for what hummus did, they killed and kidnapped innocent children.
They could have returned them for free at the first opportunity, instead they used them as bargains chips.
Instead neither side cares about the civilians as anything more than pawns.
So fuck them both, it’s really hard for me to care when the first sf or hummus has their people killed.
They are both pieces of shit who only care about land and power.
Also, you still don’t know what tankie means
Then by your own logic, you should be wishing on them the same thing you wished on America - for their countries to burn.
I literally defined it earlier in the thread.
I have very clearly said multiple times in the past that hummus are a bunch of tunnel rats whose extinction won’t bother me in the slightest, same for the IDF, maybe one day we will be able to respect Israel again, but they have managed to turn my default view of Israelis from neutral to negative.
Does that justify calling for Israel to burn?
Me, personally, I am a supporter of military force in select circumstances. I would love it if there was the political will to impose a no-fly zone over Gaza, IDF casualties be damned.
But I still wouldn't call for Israel to burn, no, not even knowing that Gazan genocide is still widely popular in the country. Not just as a matter of ignorant and indirect support, as in the US, but as a matter of direct and intimately understood support.
Likewise, calling for America to burn because a majority of the people here understand international politics about as well as they understand domestic politics (ie not at all) is fucking unconsciable, and what I called you out for in the beginning.
Never Again applies to everyone, I get so sick of saying that
Except if the majority has bad opinions on policy, huh?
I don’t support killing anyone, I don’t support military action, and almost every problem we have in the Middle East right now can be directly assigned as a consequence of us action.
I think we just need to walk away from the Middle East altogether.
At one time Israel might have been deserving of our help, but they have repeatedly tried to drag more countries into this to try to force us military action.
That said if one of said bad policies is killing people, then yeah I don’t care what happens to them.
Same as I don’t care what happens to hummus or most of the IDF.
Everyone is living by the sword
If we burn because of our decisions we deserve it.
It sucks for the people like me who don’t want to support genocide, but if the majority votes it in, we can’t say that it wasn’t legitimate
Okay, but that's not what you said. You didn't say "If America decides to nuke itself, it deserves it." You said that America deserves to burn if it continues supporting Israel's genocide, even lukewarmly.
That's you.
We deserve what we get is my usual and ultimate response.
I use burn in the context of if we burn you burn with us.
So yes I fully believe we deserve whatever we get, and that if comes time for us to burn, we take others with us.
And yet you keep trying to call the person advocating against military force as one.
No, you're 'just' saying that the murder of millions of Americans is okay because most have opinions on foreign policy that aren't aligned with your's. Much better!
~~Also, in this comment thread, I haven't called you a tankie.~~ Apparently I did when you called for America to burn for the sin of wrongthink.