this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
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Lefty Memes
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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
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0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
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That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
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We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
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So you're basically saying that independent thought is a myth. What heinous material conditions forced you to come up with THAT turd? ๐คฆ
I am not. I am saying that people are products of their environment. Someone raised with no concept of "Jupiter" wouldn't think about Jupiter.
^ It's like my best friend from High School who disowned me. We were always on opposite ends of the political spectrum but always met in the middle at "everything is fucked and rigged." Of COURSE he was a capitalist conservative, his Dad owned a successful construction company, but we still saw the same flaws in the system and respected/saw what the other was saying on whatever issue we discussed.
I won't say he didn't work hard or anything, he did go to college (paid for though, of course) and work a real job in his business/bookkeeping field for a while. But sure enough after a few years with his family resources and connections he started a real estate business and now I'm a filthy commie even for just utilizing VA health care (which isn't a "freebie," but a part of the agreement when you join.)
My point is, we were able to find middle ground and agree on certain things, until his privileged position allowed him to "win." Then, all of a sudden, the system is perfect and I'm just a loser who wants winners to pay for losers and if I want healthcare (or whatever) I should just get off my ass and "win." Of course the system seems flawless and superior when you have all the material conditions to just waltz in with no struggle or strife.
((Lesser point, we were friends for like 20 years from age 14-15 and I still miss my friend))
actually, "Jupiter" would not exist as a concept if not for someone raised without it inventing it in the first place.
People are influenced by their environment for sure, but not only is the environment influenced by the people too, there are also myriad other determining factors at play.
Yes, so people's environment shapes their ideas. Brains do not secrete thought like Bile.
People's environment can INFLUENCE their ideas, sure, but it doesn't DICTATE them regardless of all other factors.
And fyi sometimes Brians DO secrete, but they'll thank you not to draw attention to their embarrassing medical issue.
Where do ideas come from?
Kuurne. It's a municipality located in the Belgian province West Flanders.
So you're ultimately uninterested in arguing anything meaningful and just want to loudly and proudly flip the table, got it.
Nah, I've just realized that there's no talking you out of your delusion, so I might as well have a little fun with it ๐คท
What delusion?
That all ideas stem from material conditions and no material conditions are the result of ideas.
All ideas stem from material conditions, but just as matter shapes humans, humans reshape matter, which reshape humans who repeat the process.
That's the driving force of history.
It's absurd to think that ideas change matter without material changes.
You're FAR too fixated on matter. How old are you again? Did you recently read philosophy for the first time and it just so happened to be of a materialist nature? Because you're very much giving off that "child repeating things they don't understand" vibe.
Nope. It's MUCH more varied and complex than just people interacting with matter.
Not anymore absurd than your extreme oversimplification of the concepts of knowledge and opinion.
It is absolutely absurd to think that matter changes depending on how you percieve it. You're deeply unserious.
IDEAS change depending on how you perceive them. Matter isn't always involved at all. Not everything is arranged in neat rows to fit your silly pet theory.
And your perception is based on matter, yes. The outputs are made of inputs.
I'm beginning to think there's a fundamental misunderstanding at play here. Could you do me a favor and define exactly what you mean by "matter"?
Matter. Existing mass.
So you ARE talking about physical matter as the foundation of all ideas?
Alrighty then, no reason for me to keep wasting my time trying to talk you out of your delusion. Have a nice day.
Ideas are not made of magic.
True. Guess what? Just because you can't touch something doesn't mean that it's magic.
Nope, sure doesn't. It also doesn't mean that the metaphysical is the origin of that which shapes ideas. There are no ghosts out there giving you ideas.
Just take the L and leave me alone.