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Bill Barr says Trump often suggested executing rivals in heated White House outbursts
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024
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Normalizing political violence will inevitably, and possibly literally, blow up in your own face.
or you can hope it doesn't happen until it does and then you're standing there with your pants down. the entire future of every living thing on this planet may come down to whether we have the balls to do the right thing or not. the path to utopia may not be pretty, but when hell on earth is a possibility, you kinda don't have a choice.
You're hardly the first person to think they can kill their way to Utopia. It has never worked.
You’re hardly the first person to think that the end result is always the same
Except the end result has historically always been the same; Hate begets hate.
What do they say about the 'definition of insanity' again? “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Insanity is doing nothing while you watch sociopaths ruin the world for all living creatures for the foreseeable future.
The fact that you can only see violence as the option to "doing nothing" is sort of the problem.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance
There's power in unity. Much moreso than in violence.
nonviolent resistance worked in the 20th century because there were still plenty of people who cared or at least pretended to care. the 21st century is basically sociopaths, dissociative personality types, and pacifists. there's no good people left with a spine and you're about to see what that world breeds. it may already be too late.
Unions still work just as well as they did last century. Hell, they work better.
What you're essentially saying is that "well this thing that has never worked is the solution and we shouldn't use the thing that has been proved to work".
It is hard to organise activism globally, but nonviolence still works better than violence.
What stands in it's way is people believing there's no point to nonviolent resistance... a bit like you.
violence was never a viable option because organizing it has been impossible for the common man. we now have the tools to coordinate globally and discreetly.
Yeah the 'lack of organisation' isn't the problem.
Unions work, authoritarianism doesn't. Your lack of belief in nonviolent activism is partially responsible for the state of the world, so stop it with the inane violence fantasies and start doing something.
you're incredibly naive. how did non violent action work out for the jews in the holocaust? was euromaidan peaceful?
violence is the lubrication for every major historical event that changes the landscape of a region. the threat of violence is the basis of every legal system. keep singing koombaya, you limp-wristed do-nothing.
What non-violent resistance movements of Jews were there in Europe? Because I don't know of any. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe
The battle for humanity's future is fought with words, not bullets. Lovely irony in you trying to call someone else naive, as all you're capable of is cheap "we should beat up the baddies" BS, which achieves less than nothing, being in itself harmful to the discourse.
I'm actually in the military reserves. I'm trained and ready to defend my country, with weapons, if necessary. Can you say the same? It would be somewhat naive to call someone a "limp-wristed do-nothing" if you're not in the military and you think vague threats of violence to some poorly defined "them" is more effective at achieving things than discussing them like adults.
"What non-violent resistance movements of Jews were there in Europe?"
There was no resistance. everybody saw it coming and did nothing until it was too late.
"The battle for humanity’s future is fought with words, not bullets."
The history books tell a very different story. Again, naive.
"Lovely irony in you trying to call someone else naive, as all you’re capable of is cheap “we should beat up the baddies” BS, which achieves less than nothing, being in itself harmful to the discourse."
I promise you if the baddies fear for their life, they're going to be very hesitant to roll over the people. If the last time X baddie attempted some sociopathic cruelty, they ended up picking up their teeth afterwards, they will think twice about doing it again.
"I’m actually in the military reserves. I’m trained and ready to defend my country, with weapons, if necessary. Can you say the same?"
I'm armed and trained as well buddy.
"It would be somewhat naive to call someone a “limp-wristed do-nothing”
If it walks like a duck...
"some poorly defined “them”
I have a list.
Again, you're ignoring the last 4000 years of civilization if you think violence is an ineffective tool for change.
Your refusal to read history doesn't make your fantasies true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe
"I promise you if the baddies"
And you don't see any irony in writing out things like that in the same comment that you deign to call someone 'naive' in?
So that's a "no, I'm not in the military, but I'm an American gun-owner". Yes, I think that's probably readily apparent to most people reading this conversation.
You still can't even define "the baddies" (what a hilariously inane concept to begin with), let alone propose anything else than vague threats of violence aimed at "them". Unions and politicians actually achieve things, while you sit there, terminally online, shining your Walmart bought guns and fantasizing of violence.
It really isn't the fault of others that you refuse to read history. "Facts don't care about your feelings" as I've heard some other equally rhetorically talented American say.
Authoritarianism doesn't work. Unions do, like other forms of cooperative movements which utilise the extremely broad economic and political power that the masses have, when organised.
Never heard of Tank Man either, I suppose?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance
There's a whole list of hundreds of examples from before the beginning of our calendar to modern day. I stress, once again; you refusing to read history doesn't make your fantasies true. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Jim Grech Shaikh Nawaf S. Al-Sabah Michael Whatley Larry Fink Clarence Thomas Samuel Alito Neil Gorsuch Jonathan Lockwood Tucker Carlson Ryan Lance Amin H. Nasser Greg Abbott
I could go on...
But whatever. You refuse to acknowledge that the death of any of those guys would be a win for humanity? I guarantee you we would see more results with swift action in that direction than useless protests and -checks notes- singing.
"I could go on."
Oh, please, do.
So you are asserting that we should just straight up execute those people, and some other possible petroleum company leaders and shitty corrupt politicians, and that will definitely fix the world. And you don't see that being reductive or naive in the slightest?
You refuse to acknowledge that non-violent activism can deal with systemic change better than your ridiculously vague threats of violence towards a couple of examples of politicans and fossil fuel people who could be replaced instantly with another one just like them.
You still refuse to read history. Just just refuse. Just like you claim you're "trained", which you are not, you do not know history, in the slightest.
How did the civil rights movement work in the US? Why?
Who has arguably been more influenftial in the history of the human race, Jesus or Hitler? Do you know what the word "martyr" means and where it comes from? Can you name the last time workers rights were improved by explicitly violent movements (and not peaceful protests which turned rowdy).
No-one is denying the power of change of violence, but I'll forgive you thinking that, because reading comprehension doesn't seem to be one of your strengths. The point is that non-violent cooperative movements are much more powerful for meaningful, lasting change.
Since you just absolutely refuse to acknowledge the power of nonviolent resistance in favour of your childish fantasies, allow me to list examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago#End_of_slavery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_Resistance_(Hungary)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1st_Movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_Egyptian_revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-cooperation_movement_(1919%E2%80%931922)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_resistance_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance_to_apartheid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Democratic_Revolution_of_1954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larzac
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Power_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singing_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_of_Liberia_Mass_Action_for_Peace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Egyptian_revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_revolution
The fact that you can't see that your resistance to the idea that nonviolent resistance is more powerful for meaningful change (not to mention morally superior) is partly responsible for why the world is as shit as it is. And if yo somehow found a genie to make your fantasies true, the world would be an even worse place. Who do you think you are? The Unabomber? Just drop off a few "evil" keyfigures and the world will all right itself. It's not about achieving systemic changes in attitude, let's just summarily execute some corrupt idiots, because there's definitely not more to replace the ones you decide aren't worth living.
It's just so utterly utterly childish what you're writing mister not-a-trained-soldier. I have taken a literal vow to defend my country, and will do so, but unlike some deeply disturbed gun-bros, I don't dream about violence, I actively avoid it. See, unlike you, I'm not afraid. That's why I don't own a gun, I'm not a pussy who "needs one for protection". I confront people, but I don't need to resort to violence. I use my words, like an adult person. And I do that with for example the fairs I drove when I used to drive a taxi, oftentimes meaning drunk and drugged up bikers as well. None of them ever hit me, although everyone that got mad said they would. Hot air, just like you. Nothing more.
If you actually want to improve the world, at least keep your mouth shut so you're not bothering actual conversations with your useless violence fantasies.
as i said in my previous reply, i'd like to really explore our differences in depth. i would like to mention now that, if you rinse repeat the process i described, no one would ever want that job and without leadership, these companies would begin to crumble and exert less influence over global politics.
And neither of us will be the first person proven wrong on our respective points.
That’s got to be a Farside comic or something: Thag standing there with his pants down while the asteroid destroys Dinotopia.
Or Dr Strangelove or something, yeah the end of the world coming, let’s make it happen
Doomsday cult preaching the Rapture so opening the portal to Chthulu to rain down terror and insanity
What makes you think you'd survive a purity test by a "strong leader"?
man, you gotta get the idea out of your head that only evil people murder. we killed plenty of nazis and the world is better for it. pacifists never win.
I'm not a pacifist. People kill other people for a lot of reasons all the time. Some of them good. What makes you think only
<insertStrongLeaderHere>can judge who deserves to be "purged" en masse?oh, you can do it too my friend
Do what? Political purge?
we can do anything we set our minds to. we have the technology to allow one half of america to coordinate something that the other half has no clue about.
i honestly want to know how we can make it to the end of this century with half of the population perpetuating a culture of cruelty. how long will you deprive future generations of the utopia that we could be enjoying NOW if only the obstacles to that path were removed? how many innocent creatures will suffer and die before we do something?
Anything?!?!? Like, changing the world without killing millions of the most vulnerable among us?
And yes, millions are dying now anyway, but that won't stop if just start killing more people faster.
Russia are the bad guys because they invaded another country. That is unacceptable violence. Ukraine are the good guys because they're defending themselves. That is acceptable violence. If Ukraine had preemptively attacked Russia, they wouldn't be the good guys. Hamas are the bad guys because they targeted civilians. If they had only attacked military targets, I don't think things in Gaza would have gone so bad so fast. The Israeli government and military are also the bad guys, and in fact they probably think they're doing exactly what you're advocating for. Kill the bad guys before they do anything bad to make the world better/safer for everyone else. That's the problem when your only solution is killing.
You seem to arguing that the only solution to 1/2 the world being cruel is for the other 1/2 to be cruel, too...we can't end suffering by inflicting suffering...even if went perfectly we'd still have a world where 1/2 the people were cruel, it'd just be a different 1/2.
okay. tell me how you realistically think we're going to avoid the coming dystopia then. show me a practical path that creates change for the better in time to stop our destructive path.
We're seeing it now. I don't know how old you are, I'm assuming you are in your teens or early 20s? Even 5 years ago, what we're seeing on college campuses now would have been, literally, unimaginable. Especially in the face of such harsh crackdown. I was in the US military when DOMA was repealed in 2013. The questions people asked felt legitimate at the time, but in retrospect, they all sound like arguments from 75 years ago. People were concerned about LGB couples in base housing, getting benefits, etc. At one point, the General giving us the briefing last his patience and just yelled at the old guys hounding on those questions that they could quit being bigoted or leave the service. I left the TQ+ off intentionally because those people weren't even an afterthought at that point in time. We've got legal medical and recreational marijuana in about 1/2 the country and even got some cities experimenting with UBI. I cannot stress how absolutely wild the idea of any level of American government just giving people money...no strings attached is to people who grew up hearing about welfare queens and worries people were buying the wrong foods with their food stamps.
Solidarity is the path. Unionize, vote in numbers large enough to overwhelm, then dismantle gerrymandering. Tell the stories of the disadvantaged and underprivileged to as many people as you can. Get involved in politics at the local level...not just every 4 years. Support RCV, welcome mid- and high- density housing in your neighborhood. Use whatever privileges you have under this system to be the voice for those without said privileges.
It's a big world, it won't change overnight...and if it did, it's unlikely that change would last. Even if it changed over 20 years, it might not last unless we take the time to convince a majority of the people that those changes are worth protecting.
It's hard work, and it's frustratingly slow at times. Burning down the house easy, building it isn't.
All this completely ignores corporate greed ruining the planet. You're talking about social issues. These are just the carrots that they (the owners) dangle in front of you to appease you every so many years. This is not a path towards utopia (which is currently completely feasible). This is just social progress.
You think they're ever going to just allow themselves to be dethroned?
I'm 50. I've been watching this shit show closely since 9/11. Let me tell you, this is all just progress theater. Protests on campus? lol. They don't care. They'll just use it to justify more authoritarianism. They'll let you show your activism on social media until you get bored of it, finally cave in and become another cog in the machine.
None of you are any different from the hippies in the 60's. They will infantilize you in the media (they already are) and move on. Slow progress is just the status quo now. None of it will stop the next near extinction event that is coming.