-27
this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2024
-27 points (15.4% liked)
Conservative
386 readers
46 users here now
A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
-
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
-
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
-
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
How do you check that they are citizens without proof of citizenship?
Does any country require proof? In Canada you just need an ID that confirms your name and address. No proof of citizenship is necessary. It's illegal for a non citizen to vote, but proof isn't necessary in order to vote.
The reason proof isn't required is because Canada doesn't issue proof of citizenship to all citizens. How can the government require people provide proof of citizenship if the government doesn't ensure all citizens have proof of citizenship?
We dont actually have a list of citizens. There is no way of knowing without proof of citizenship. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/the-supreme-courts-big-data-problem-118568/
Canada does have a list of citizens, thats the difference.
I've never heard of that. I'd be interested if you have a source.
https://library-archives.canada.ca/eng/collection/research-help/genealogy-family-history/immigration/pages/citizenship-naturalization.aspx
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/proof-citizenship/search-records.html
Those look like immigration records. Natural born citizens wouldn't be found there. The page also says the records aren't proof of citizenship but oddly can be used for employment or government purposes (I'm not sure what other purposes you'd use it for?).
No list is needed since someone is a Canadian citizen if they meet the definition in the Citizenship Act, not if their name is on a list.
This is a guess, but I am assuming that when people register to vote (since that is not automatic, but rather an opt-in right in the United States), the person's information is sent to the local board of elections that can perform a search for the citizenship status of that individual.
I would expect the Arizona to already know if an individual is a citizen or not, so this requirement is more about preventing votes rather than securing the integrity of the voting process.
We dont actually have a list of citizens. There is no way of knowing without proof of citizenship. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/the-supreme-courts-big-data-problem-118568/
I was thinking more that the documentation provided when registering to vote would be verified, not that a person would be looked up in a large centralized list.
But that was just a guess, the board of elections may just ruberstamp all requests for all I know about their processes.
SSN
SSN doesn’t prove citizenship.
Please explain. The question is how do you prove citizenship without proof of citizenship. One way would be SSN.
Obviously it’s not officially recognized as proof of citizenship, but that wasn’t the question.
Anyone eligible for work in the US is provided with a SSN because all workers pay taxes and SSN are used to track tax payments.
Yeah see at least there you’re proving you’re allowed to be here and work legally.
Never said it was perfect, but to my knowledge it’s the best alternative, which is the question I was answering.
SSN doesn’t prove citizenship. My friend has a social and she isn’t a citizen.
Once again, that wasn’t the question.
The question was how can it be proved without proof?
That’s probably the next best answer.
If you disagree, what alternative would you suggest?
Passports show citizenship
Passports also cost money. Using those would effectively paywall voting.
Or the US Government could start paying for it from our taxes and provide one to everyone.
You also need proof of citizenship to get a passport, so it’s not much of a solution here.
Birth certificate
Right but the question is how else to prove citizenship without that. We’re going in circles now.
And unless your parents kept it in good condition on your behalf until you were old enough to keep it, it costs time and money for a replacement. Once again, paywalling the voting process.
I could get down with your suggestion to use passports, provided they’re not paywalled when you need a new one.
Alternatively we could use SSN and either allow those that are not citizens but pay taxes to vote, or update the SSN system to differentiate between citizens and non-citizens. It’s our best and most complete db of American citizens, which is why I bring it up again. It would require the least effort to use in this way.