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Politics? In my space stories???
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
636 points (97.3% liked)
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George Lucas introduced evil guys wearing SS uniforms who conduct genocide before the viewers' eyes and somehow people still pretend that Star Wars is apolitical.
The best political statement from Star Wars is that the raging liberal that is George Lucas created a galactic society with a robotic slave labor race and apparently unlimited resources but could not imagine a world where the good guys did anything but fight to restore the status quo of poor people being not quite so oppressed.
That said, Star Wars 10 should be the Droid Revolution.
Do it, you Disney pansies. You won't.
Solo tried to go there, but only droids oppressed by the Empire are truly oppressed for some reason.
The Republic: umm actually they're indentured servants
Wha- how dare you! They are choosing to serve me cocktails for no compensation out of their own bolt-restrained will.
To be fair to Star Wars, the entire premise of the overall universe is that the Galaxy is stuck on cycle between fascism and neo-liberalism because the latter will always pave the way to the former.
Also because the only beings who could break the cycle (the Jedi/Sith) are more interested in wiping the opposite faction than fixing the galaxy. Pre-Disney, Anakin/Luke begin the important transition from the cyclic system into a state of perfect balance.
I wouldn't give Lucas that much credit.
You'd be wrong.
Pff. Droids don't have real feelings and they only scream in simulated pain when you burn their feet!
Man, using droids for forced labor is immoral. Let's forcibly remove their sentience, that'll fix it!
It unironically does... Otherwise, why stop at droids - using a hammer to drive a nail would also be slavery. We'd have countless slaves working for humanity right now, in the form of industrial robots.
That's precisely why the default protocol in Star Wars (that nobody remotely related to the main cast seems to follow) is to periodically wipe droids, to prevent them from developing sentience and personality.
Major Butlerian Jihad vibes
Just need to make sure the right side wins this time
They especially won't, since 2024 generative-AI panic will make everyone root against the droids.
I'm not saying there aren't valid concerns, but people act as if ChatGPT's existence suddenly made the Terminator movies into a fucking documentary.
Motherfuckers remind me of the weirdos hunting down robots to kill in that redneck carnival, in the second act of Steven Spielberg's A.I. : Artificial Intelligence.
Are you seriously criticizing the use of droids in a galaxy where slavery and clone armies are a thing? Also, in-universe, the use of droids isn't quite as bad as it seems - we get confirmation from multiple sources that Droids do not develop a personality and sense of self unless they're left on for too long. That's why I'd consider C3PO, R2-D2 and most B1 battle droids to be sentient individuals, but most Droidekas to be no more than tools/weapons.
Oh wait until you meet the Starship Troopers / Helldivers communities...
Oh, I have... I have...
The weird thing about Starship Troopers is that it's not entirely clear whether the author of the original book was criticising. of the fascistic society he describes or not. On the one hand the book takes these ideals to an extreme even for many supporters of these ideals, but on the other hand it seems to be providing a lot of merit to the militaristic society it describes.
I personally think the book is an exploration of what a militaristic society would look like if faced by a external threat, and that it should be taken at face value, but there are plenty of critics who have read more books than I have with much less favourable interpretations.
The movie is definitely not trying to defend these ideals, but I think that's a choice by the movie's director and writers rather than a representation of the source material.
The beauty of the book is that you’re basically reading a future soldier’s diary. Heinlein is letting the story speak for itself, the reader has to decide what to think of such a life, such a future without being nudged into any direction whatsoever. I love it.
I think Heinlein did that a lot. I think stranger and a strange land is him looking at the hippie culture and taking it to a sci-fi extreme. I don't think he was trying to advocate for anything. In particular, a lot of his books was about trying to protect the future and see how that would affect people.
Oh, Heinlein was definitely not writing satire.
Then you read the next book, and it's about space being a Libertarian utopia. And then the next one is about a free love cult.
He might not be writing satire, but if he wasn't, then I don't know how to make anything coherent out of his writing. The only commonality is a very obvious self insert mouthpiece character.
There's a line of criticism on Heinlein's work that tries to defang the unsavory themes in his stories by pretty much declaring them all satire. Fascist themes in Starship Troopers? Satire. Racist themes in Farnham’s Freehold? Fourth-dimensional chess level satire, you can see it if you look real carefully. Incest in To Sail Beyond the Sunset? A big joke!
And maybe it's true? He definitely became more libertarian over time -- but he was a professional writer, so his output is bound to be a combination of what he believed and what he thought would sell. Personally, I have no idea what the mix is. Would be nice if the people who enjoyed his stories didn't also feel obligated to puff up his moral bone fides though. So much bending over backwards isn't really good for a person.
I'm a big proponent of the "death of the author". Even if the author is still around to give their reasons for writing something the way they did, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is what the audience sees in the work.
Every interpretation is equally valid as long as they're sincere. The drapes were blue. The drapes represent depression. The drapes represent Democrats. The only invalid deconstruction is one delivered in bad faith.
Edit: typo
I hate death of the author because it destroys art as a form of communication. You end up with Orwellian art: Whoever controls the present narative, controls the past.
I can imagine a fascist future where Guernica is taught as a pro-Nazi work of art.
Death of the Author enables the most absolute shittakes to be valid. John Carpenter felt the need to make a public statement decrying the neo-nazis who were promoting the idea that They Live was a critic of Jews.
I don't think it destroys art as a form of communication any more than the possibility of being misunderstood over texting or even in person destroys those media.
The chance for miscommunication exists in every form of communication, it's the consequence of letting an idea out of your own head and into the world. And art is inherently less clear a method for communication than something more straightforward would be.
If you create a work that nazis can see a bit of their worldview in, congratulations! They see their worldview in the world, so you've created a decently accurate facsimile of reality. Shitty people seeing their own shitty ideas in your art doesn't say anything about you, y says something about them. The same "death of the author" that lets them have that take insulated the author from that take.
But the reason I like it is that it also allows decent people to come to decent conclusions about art made by shitty people. Even if I didn't like it, I know it exists. Art can speak to someone about experiences the author didn't imagine, and that can be powerful and significant and beautiful, even if it can also be shitty.
The fact that you used the word misunderstood means you understand that an interpretation can be wrong.
Death of the author means there is never misunderstanding. If you send a text and I misread it, you are wrong, not me. I can ignore any attempts that you might use to correct the misunderstanding because my interpretation is just as valid.
If you are attempting to use art to communicate, then that can be understood as you intended or understood differently, i.e. misunderstood.
If you send me a text that says "Take the frogs over to the bank" and I take some amphibians to the river, that isn't a wrong reading of that sentence even if you wanted me to take some roads over to the money storage location (a valid, if unusual, way to parse that sentence). I misunderstood you, but my reading is not any less valid than yours.
The difference is that I couldn't correct the misunderstanding because you believe your interpretation is valid no matter what the author says. What I intended is irrelevant to you.
The interpretation is valid. But that doesn't mean communication hasn't broken down. In the case of a text message, the "true purpose" isn't to entertain or to elucidate deep truths about the world (usually), it's to convey a message.
Art with the goal of covering a single message is, in a word, propaganda. Propaganda that succeeds at being art may or may not succeed at being propaganda, but as art, the message intended by the author is not as important as the interpretation of the audience. Tolkien said he hated allegory, but it doesn't make Lord of the rings not allegorical, it only makes it not deliberately allegorical.
Guernica is propaganda? If you remove the "misleading" part of the definition of propaganda then all communication is propaganda. A Maths textbook is propaganda.
You state that as a fact when this is the problem being discussed!
The author is trying to tell you something and you are saying, "I don't care if you try to correct me. You actually meant amphibians go to the river and your attempts to correct me are wrong."
I'm using sense 1, here, and yes, Picasso's Guernica is propaganda. It was commissioned explicitly to raise awareness and funds for a war. It is also, and separately, art.
I don't think all communication is propaganda, but I also don't think all communication is art. If you're choosing to create something and call it "art" while also trying to push a particular message, it is (at least almost) certain that you are also intending to convey an emotional and influential message. Perhaps there need not be an agenda, except your own desire to send the message you hope to.
Edit: formatting
And even more importantly is that people are gonna "teach" the making of art how they teach it regardless, but the teacher experiencing it one way doesn't make any of the other readings invalid.
I think he wrote a lot of space exploration books and went "Why not also explore politics of space faring society too?"
Wait until you hear about The Iron Dream. It's definitely satire, but Nazis recommend it anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream
Would you like to know more?
Not mad at you but I literally cannot fucking abide with critics' read of Starship Troopers that it's somehow pro-fascist. Not only have I read some of his other books that are about peaceful, optimistic space exploration, but the book itself is so clearly a satire it astounds me. I could really write a whole wall of text right now.
Anyway, it's concept is "what if facism was normal to everyone and it was centuries of that normalization and they decided to conquer the galaxy because... Fascism" And then it goes into the mind of a literal average soldier who starts to think too much and is really horny because he's barely ever laid eyes on a girl." It's anti fascist, but in a clever way. That's what makes it so good.
tl;dr - Heinlein ain't that smart
Warhammer 40k anyone?
Episode 1 was about a trade dispute on the surface and a plot to take over the Republic and turn it into a dictatorship just below the surface (where "the surface" is about what the characters in the movie see, the audience sees it all if they've watched the OT before). Episode 2 is about expanding that into a war, episode 3 is about creating a moment to perform a coup.
The action is secondary to the politics with the exception of the death of Darth Maul, the escape of Obi Wan and Yoda, Obi Wan defeating Anakin, the destruction of the first Death Star, the Ewoks joining the battle of Endor, and Anakin turning on Sideous. Everything else was part of Sideous' plan to take political power.
There are also strong messages about trauma and how being cloistered can lead people to become the very evil their isolation was intended to prevent. Luke is a walking billboard saying "even evil people can realise the gravity of their mistakes", as well.
And the Vietcong are the good guys
History is written by the victors /j
But they're all white in this adaptation for some reason.
Sure, but he also ripped off Triumph of the Will for the ending scene with the good guys. Lucas just really likes Nazi imagery.
To be fair as far as fashion sense goes nazis were slick AF
Hugo Boss, still going strong today.