this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
35 points (100.0% liked)

UK Politics

3073 readers
123 users here now

General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both [email protected] and [email protected] .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.

Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.

Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.

If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)

Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.

Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.

[email protected] appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Rishi Sunak’s Conservatives on Friday suffered two crushing UK parliamentary by-election defeats but averted a “3-0” drubbing by unexpectedly holding on to Boris Johnson’s old Uxbridge seat.

The grave problems facing the British prime minister were highlighted when the opposition Labour party secured its biggest-ever by-election win in the once-safe Tory seat of Selby and Ainsty in Yorkshire.

Earlier the centrist Liberal Democrats demolished a massive Tory majority to win the seat of Somerton and Frome, opening up a dangerous new front for Sunak in the Tory heartlands of England’s South West.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (17 children)

And this is why Starmer isn't being 'bolder', for those of us who were wondering.

The rapid expansion of ULEZ to the suburbs is a bold policy. Everyone knew it would be controversial but Khan went for it anyway because it has already been shown to be highly effective (London's air quality has improved faster than anyone thought possible since the earlier expansions of ULEZ).

The result of this unequivocally sensible policy? Of a politician taking bold but effective steps to improve public health and quality of life? Labour lose a winnable seat.

Politics isn't fair. Starmer knows it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Good points. There is far too much concern about focus groups and "what the public want" and not enough leadership. Preventing self harm should be applauded by the silent majority, not perpetuated by the selfish few..

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shall we also mention the swing? From a fairly good majority of 7,200 in a constituency that been very Tory even in its previous boundaries going to a majority of 495 votes after a recount that is not a resounding victory for the tories but a close escape.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I saw some people pointing out that Uxbridge has a big university and all the students have just gone home for the summer. We shouldn't put too much emphasis on hypotheticals but it genuinely could've swung the by-election for Labour if it had been held during term time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Students couldn't possibly vote by post. They couldn't possibly!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Fair point. Like I said, we shouldn't put too much on hypotheticals.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don't students vote in their home constituencies, not the ones where they study?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Up to them where they want to register (unless it's changed since I were a lad)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

You can actually register in both, which is useful for local elections where you can vote in both. But in a general election, you can only vote in one. I assume that you can vote in any byelections.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They can choose either!

load more comments (15 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Who tf is still voting for them? Who are these people?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At least in Uxbridge, single issue voters seem to have won it for them

People who are upset with Sadiq Kahn for the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London, despite the fact that their former MP Johnson actually kicked it off...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

He (Boris) is to blame for so many things. ~~Fickle~~ willfully ignorant voters can't see past today's headlines.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I actually don't really think it's a terrible idea, no matter where it came from. Air quality in London is way better than it used to be, but still not good enough.

I know it's mostly from the tube, but I always think of the black bogeys I'd get whenever I visited London as a child. My parents told me about how bad the smog was when they lived there in the 60s and 70s.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Oops! I meant Boris!

Will edit to reflect that.

The air is cleaner, and there's less traffic. Underground was terrible when I was a kidd.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No worries, I guessed that's what you meant.

I was referring to how ULEZ was initially announced by Boris in 2015. Boris is awful, but that doesn't mean every idea he had was awful.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I think the bikes were a good idea.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The bikes were actually Ken Livingstone's idea...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Were they? So boris nicked them as well? Shouldnt be surreally.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I remember my eyes watering on a warm day in London due to the pollution and the general stink of the pollution (during the summer a temperature inversion that keeps it capped in will worsen it). I recently visited London during a hot spell and it was remarkable how pleasant the air was in central London. The ULEZ and congestion charges have made London such a better place to be.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They deserve everything crappy that happens to them.

Unfortunately we cop it as well 😒

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Lots of people, just not the ones who post online in the same places as you. Posh people, rural people, and old people all love them, and they probably make up a higher percentage of Tory voters than just the ill-informed and racist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

There seem to be a number of ideas around the ULEZ, some of which are perhaps reasonable and worth discussion (e.g. the costs of upgrading or renewing existing vehicles, challenges involved with certain commercial vehicle types) and some of which are, frankly, unhinged (e.g. conspiracy theories that the whole thing, ULEZ, 15-minute towns, LTN and so on are part of some elitist plot to limit individual freedoms).

I find the conspiracy folks and their freedom particularly odd.

It has always been the case that your freedom to swing your arm ends where my face begins; freedom is not without constraints.

So on the one hand, those who subscribe to the conspiracy theory want the freedom to pollute.

On the other hand, there is a fair amount of overlap between this conspiracy theory and the desire to limit the freedom of cyclists by removing cycle lanes and introducing licensing and taxation.

Internal consistency and clarity of thought are not particular strengths it seems.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Good to see the red wall turning red again, shows getting Brexit done bullshit was the flash.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Fantastic result for the Lib Dems! And it wasn't even close. A new majority of 11000. This has got to give so much confidence going into next year that they can pick up lots of seats.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

At the very least, it means the Tories will have some serious headaches about which seats to put resources in to. Good news for any opposition party!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

And from the interviews with voters I've heard, there was a lot of tactical voting going on - a lot people will vote for whoever can get the Tories out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lib Dems turning a 19,000 Tory majority into an 11,000 Lib Dem majority in a Leave-voting rural seat

vs

Labour almost overturning the 7,000 majority in the London seat of a disgraced former PM

Do Labour just have no idea how to do by-elections? They should have won Uxbridge with their eyes closed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah you are so right, and I don't buy the ULEZ excuse either, nobody is excited for vote for Keith, are they?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

ULEZ expansion is going to be a dead-albatross around the neck of the tories, imho.

They have the largest percentage of voters who are against it, but there still aren't enough internally for them to nail their underpants to the mast on cancellation. So when it comes time to implement, or not implement, they're damned if they do or don't.

If they do end up with the power to make the call, I absolutely expect them to drag their feet until a few more opponents have upgraded their vehicles/died from shortened lifespans due to emissions.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It seems like an enormous non-issue. Most cars meet the standard just fine.

Even my boss's massive diesel Fall Guy truck meets it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What they (and Labour) should do is make a purely cosmetic change, push back implementation by six months and scream about it. The ULEZ already won't affect most of the people who voted against it, we just need to do literally anything that makes them realise that!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Didn't central government demand and then cancel a Manchester low emissions zone after Andy Burnham had spent all the money on it? Surely that's what they plan to do - nothing until the last minute after Sadiq Khan has spent all the money, then cancel it from on high.

load more comments
view more: next ›