Whatabout acknowledging how utterly inhuman that attack was, and that it happened, without worrying about it overshadowing other war crimes you want to bring to light?
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
138 points (84.8% liked)
World News
39032 readers
3169 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Next the footage of those journalists you blew up?
Or, and I know this is a shock, understand this is another new piece of the puzzle in a fucked up conflict. Whataboutism does nothing.
What about.... What about ..... What about... What about..
... the economy???? (/s)
Seriously though, fully agree
Fully agree that one atrocity completely justifies a counter-genocide and you're committing a logical fallacy to bring that up?
Well, it's not an uncommon take among the powers that be.
Opposite - screaming "what about x/y/z" doesn't degrade the value of this item. This was an item posted among a sea of violence and death, and bringing up others doesn't write this one off.
The point of crying about "whataboutism" is specifically to dismiss points made about both sides being awful, with civilians caught in the middle.
No its not - it provides a different narrative to distract from the arguement infront of you and give you something different to be argued for. Exactly what its doing now.
This is a video showing people being murdered. Doesn't matter which side is which it can't be justified by saying someone tangently related to this did something worse. Fuck what else is going on, this is a disgusting scenario that played out.
One has to wonder what type of person finds this sufficient justification for the more than 2000 Palestinian children the IDF has killed so far just this past week.
One also has to wonder what type of person is in the Iraeli propaganda services when they seem to think more people will be swayed to "side with Israel" if they repeatedly push this kind of thing out at this point in light of what the Israelis are curently doing with no expectation of them stopping.
Makes me think of the psychological mechanism of Projection and how those who have a monstrous mindset presume that others are driven by a similar mindset.
Indeed, what kind of mindset starts all this knowing retribution will be high. Probably mind that doesn't care about people's lives.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Israeli military held a screening for journalists on Monday of raw footage recovered from Hamas body cameras, in an effort to remind the world of the brutality of the attack on Israel two weeks ago.
The bodycam footage, cut together with clips from CCTV, dashboard cameras and the mobile phones of both Hamas gunmen and victims, showed in stark detail the sheer horror visited on a music festival and family neighbourhoods in southern Israel.
It contained clips of Hamas gunmen cheering with apparent joy as they shot civilians on the road, and later stalking the pathways of kibbutzim and killing parents and children in their homes.
After the two boys, bloodied and in shock, had staggered back into their home screaming, a Hamas gunman calmly entered and looked through the fridge in front of them, pausing to take a drink before walking out again.
The film also contained an audio recording of one of the Hamas gunmen calling home to his parents in Gaza from the phone of a victim to boast that he had "killed at least 10 Jews with my bare hands".
Another sequence showed one Hamas gunman shooting the apparently dead bodies of civilians inside a kibbutz in a celebratory manner, and an attempt to decapitate someone who appeared to be still alive using a garden hoe.
The original article contains 998 words, the summary contains 221 words. Saved 78%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
There is no published footage of the compilation available online. There were no cameras allowed inside the conference.
Many of the videos mentioned are publically available for the morbidly curious.
Hey arm chair generals no one deserves to die.
What about the body cam videos of Israeli troops shooting teenagers throwing rocks?
Not so eager to show that off, eh?
First. Whatabout the 5000 deaths in Gaza?
Comment was reported for daring to quote the 5,000 number which is a documented fact:
https://dppa.un.org/en/israel-palestine-gaza-death-toll-passes-5000-with-no-ceasefire-sight
Comment remains. Don't like that number? Take it up with the U.N.
I know you're citing the United Nations as an authority, and providing a link is definitely welcome, but the site you're linking literally says
The number of people killed in Gaza has reached 5,087 according to latest reports from de facto authorities there
thereby acknowledging that even the UN is merely repeating the numbers that Hamas is giving them.
Could we maybe agree that blindly accepting whatever Hamas is saying as truth is not the best policy?
If the number is good enough for the U.N., it's good enough for me. I'm in no position to "Um, aCKtUaLly..." the United Nations. ;)
If they felt it was wrong or biased they wouldn't cite it.
They themselves imply the number is likely to be biased (the defacto authority is hardly going to be impartial), but I agree, it isn't your job to second guess the numbers being used by the UN.
And the numbers were not biased in the end. Shock?
You mean we should believe the numbers when the IDF is reporting them?
No, I mean you were wrong 😊 let me know when you need more reading comprehension help
Because the IDF reported those numbers, and if the IDF reports those numbers, that means you were right?
No, because the numbers were always right, because the UN and Gazan medical health centers and hospitals are reliable and have always been.
The numbers were reported by Hamas. The UN merely used those numbers.
Tell me why we should put blind faith into anything published by Hamas?
Because the numbers have been vetted and counted by the UN before the war many times. Because Gaza ha(d) a good enough medical standard and was trusted by medical organizations all over the world. The only people not believing the Gazan ministry is YOU, Israel, and the US. Whst a coincidence that no one else had any reason to doubt this number... Only genocide deniers do.
We can only interpret the information we’re given. To dismiss it is naive.
To take it for granted, given the source, is more naïve.
I’m sure the UN 🇺🇳 will take your comment into consideration.
The number of people killed in Gaza has reached 5,087 according to latest reports from de facto authorities there
By de facto authorities they mean Hamas.
Appeal to authority
Good mod
Nope, that's second.
What about them? Would any of them occur, if the 7th October attack never happened? Doubt.
"Your son killed so many Jews," he said. "Mum, your son is a hero."