this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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[–] [email protected] 69 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

My own “we need” list, from a dork who stood up a web server nearly 25 years ago to host weeb crap for friends on IRC:

We need a baseline security architecture recipe people can follow, to cover the huge gap in needs between “I’m running one thing for the general public and I hope it doesn’t get hacked” and “I’m running a hundred things in different VMs and containers and I don’t want to lose everything when just one of them gets hacked.”

(I’m slowly building something like this for mspencer.net but it’s difficult. I’ll happily share what I learn for others to copy, since I have no proprietary interest in it, but I kinda suck at this and someone else succeeding first is far more likely)

We need innovative ways to represent the various ideas, contributions, debates, informative replies, and everything else we share, beyond just free form text with an image. Private communities get drowned in spam and “brain resource exhaustion attacks” without it. Decompose the task of moderation into pieces that can be divided up and audited, where right now they’re all very top down.

Distributed identity management (original 90s PGP web of trust type stuff) can allow moderating users without mass-judging entire instances or network services. Users have keys and sign stuff, and those cryptographic signatures can be used to prove “you said you would honor rule X, but you broke that rule here, as attested to by these signing users.” So people or communities that care about rule X know to maybe not trust that user to follow that rule.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

I think the key is building a social information system based on connections we have in real life. Key exchange parties, etc

It's the only way to introduce a prohibitively high cost to centralized broadcast and reduce the power of these mega-entities

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[–] [email protected] 206 points 21 hours ago (53 children)

Agreed. But we need a solution against bots just as much. There's no way the majority of comments in the near future won't just be LLMs.

[–] [email protected] 70 points 21 hours ago (25 children)

Closed instances with vetted members, there’s no other way.

[–] [email protected] 118 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (9 children)

Too high of a barrier to entry is doomed to fail.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 21 hours ago (4 children)

Programming.dev does this and is the tenth largest instance.

[–] [email protected] 106 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (9 children)

Techy people are a lot more likely to jump through a couple of hoops for something better, compared to your average Joe who isn't even aware of the problem

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

10th largest instance being like 10k users... we're talking about the need for a solution to help pull the literal billions of users from mainstream social media

[–] [email protected] 13 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

There isn't a solution. People don't want to pay for something that costs huge resources. So their attention becoming the product that's sold is inevitable. They also want to doomscroll slop; it's mindless and mildly entertaining. The same way tabloid newspapers were massively popular before the internet and gossip mags exist despite being utter horseshite. It's what people want. Truly fighting it would requires huge benevolent resources, a group willing to finance a manipulative and compelling experience and then not exploit it for ad dollars, push educational things instead or something. Facebook, twitter etc are enshitified but they still cost huge amounts to run. And for all their faults at least they're a single point where illegal material can be tackled. There isn't a proper corollary for this in decentralised solutions once things scale up. It's better that free, decentralised services stay small so they can stay under the radar of bots and bad actors. When things do get bigger then gated communities probably are the way to go. Perhaps until there's a social media not-for-profit that's trusted to manage identity, that people don't mind contributing costs to. But that's a huge undertaking. One day hopefully...

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago

we have to use trust from real life. it's the only thing that centralized entities can't fake

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I feel like it's only a matter of time before most people just have AI's write their posts.

The rest of us with brains, that don't post our status as if the entire world cares, will likely be here, or some place similar... Screaming into the wind.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 17 hours ago (9 children)

Unfortunately, Lemmy demonstrates pretty clearly that decentralized systems are just as vulnerable to propaganda and brain rot.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

So long as it is humans posting this will be a problem. The benefit of a federated system is that you can't compromise the person at the top and then everything collapses.

I just jumped on here today (from seeing this article on Reddit) but my understanding is that the advantage is that the CEO can't decide he wants to suck authoritarian cock and destroy our ability to discuss and/or organize.

(Admittedly I joined the biggest server I could find so I kind of violated that idea as well).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago

Welcome! Some people have gripes with dot world for being the biggest, etc. but generally you'll be fine.

You can always search for communities here as well. .

There's many apps and frontends and too. Some are preincluded into lemmy.world. If you like old reddit try old lemmy for example.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 16 hours ago (4 children)

Humans are vulnerable to propaganda. Lemmy's architecture is against censorship. This helps to push back against propaganda, but only so much. But at least not being censored is a big win IMO.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago

Except the propaganda was explicitly grown on reddit.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago

I'm not so sure. Depends if there's a solution to the bots. Bluesky is inundated with them already.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

Decentralized is too complicated. Worker owned is a better path forward and is centralized so it's easier to support and be understood by its users. Moderators are workers and should have equity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

This is probably why the tech industry has been hardened against that sort of thing, and is, say, famously hard to unionize.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 15 hours ago

Communication is not for sale.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago (8 children)

Honest question, what are the incentives for instance operators to play nice, so to speak? And not just recreate new oligarch safe havens?

It seems like each instance is a miniature zone of centralization and it's still incumbent on individuals to create their own circles of influence. For better or worse that's how we get hivemind echo chambers and I'm not sure it's even in human nature to seek anything else.

Alternatively we have to rescue our friends and families when they start to fall for BS and educate them aggressively on improving the sourcing of their information.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

How do we protect ourselves from propagandists and censors? Large, small, popular and individual.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago

I did my research at the heritage foundation.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 18 hours ago

I want not just decentralized

but peer to peer

like Briar, but Lemmy-style

[–] [email protected] 39 points 21 hours ago (13 children)

Guns are the only alternative to the tech oligarchy.

You think they can't buy, manipulate, or just crush decentralized social media? If anything they can do it easily, divide and conquer. FOSS ain't gonna free you, esp. when the largest contributors to FOSS projects are big corps.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

That's absurd. Large sharp dropped blades, poison, starvation, spears, looped ropes, fire... There are many alternatives available.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

so we just all buy guns and fend for ourselves? we need communities in order to fight fascism, we need to be able to organize and share valuable information with people. is technology the answer to the problem? no its not, but it is part of the answer, and to ignore that is shortsighted.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 17 hours ago

Well it helps, but if you live under an oligarchy they will find ways to stop uncontrolled social media.

You have to address the root of the problem or you will ultimately fail as soon as you get big enough to be a problem.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I dont want to deal with people gore spamming every single Matrix channel again.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

I don’t understand this sentence. The two words I don’t know in this context are “gore” and “matrix”

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