this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2025
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

This is a sensitive topic for some people, so please do your best to have civil discussions. Let's do better than the average social media.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

It is hard to make satire now when we seem to be living in an age that satirizes itself.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

I'm religious, and I think that people should be absolutely free to satirize religion if they want to. What someone else believes isn't my affair, I definitely think my faith has lots of room for improvement from an organizational perspective, and there are plenty of religious ideas I think are toxic and wrong. Why shouldn't we have nuance and differing opinions? Why should anyone have the right to hurt others through their religious practices? We should be criticizing those things and calling them out and trying to make them stop, whether we practice religion or not. I think the treatment of women and queer people by a great deal of religious groups is wrong and should be criticized. I don't think government and religion should be intertwined at all. Just because I practice in a faith doesn't mean my faith is the authority on anything, but universally we should not be hurting others.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I am legally obligated not to have an opinion

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Is it a sensitive topic? I mean satire is respected in any country with decent human rights / freedom of speech. It only triggers bigots that theoretically have bigger problems.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What a void attitude.

The Charlie Hebdo event has proven that the discussion is very neccessary, and that satire is not fully respected even in a modern western society.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't say it's void, they were extremists. Not to take away from the tragedy of course. From my understanding the question is specifically about satire.

I'd say we've moved to wanna be oligarchs highjacking media companies in democracies for "fake news" and war crimes committed against journalists. Israel is too busy blowing up hospitals to attack foreign journalists for Nettenyohoo memes.

Didnt some journalist quit because he made satire of besos and besos being the owner of the media company didnt let it get published? Thats the reality satire faces today.

A more controversial topic would be discussing the satire of luigi that is being surpressed. (Any form of luigi speech really, but satire too).

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

Didnt some journalist quit because he made satire of besos and besos being the owner of the media company didnt let it get published? Thats the reality satire faces today.

That's because that cartoon she made was literally the truth of what's happening behind the scenes in the white house. It moved from satire into reality and that was too much for Bezos and his wealth villain buddies.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yes, obviously for some Muslim people who would like their own religious rules to be applied to everyone, but also for some people who tend to associate satire on elements related to minorities to some form of racism against those minorities. You can find quite some of the latter in communities here such as ml. One of them shared their views on a comment below.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (11 children)

Obviously it's horrible to kill people over speech. Cartoons do not justify violence or terrorism.

But we also shouldn't pretend like speech is necessary or valuable just because it's offensive or that offending people to the point of violence is noble.

If someone was killed for saying the n word that would be a tragedy and should be condemned. But we shouldn't all go around yelling the n word just to assert our free speech or pretend like the guy saying the n word was a hero for doing it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I agree with intentionally provocational speech hiding behind the 'free speech' disguise being stupid, but I think its also important to see a difference between racial slurs and discrimination based on things that people can't change, versus legitimate criticism of religion - which, although not always easy to get out of (I.e. cults, trapped family members, cultural norms) I see as still a fundamentally voluntary behaviour that you can to an extent opt out of as a belief system, as opposed to discrimination on race, sex, disability, nationality, etc.

Now of course that doesnt mean I will go into religious buildings and shout obscenities or try to have edgy atheist rants at inoffensive elderly worshippers - but the saying that "your freedom ends where mine begins" holds true for me, and I won't tolerate outward discrimination on religious grounds, the forcing of those belief systems inside secular systems like schools or courts or governments, and I think I'm well within my rights to criticise harmful and unacceptable behaviour undertaken for 'religious' grounds, which would otherwise be crimes or offences. (I.e. animal torture/sacrifice, child marriage, slavery etc.)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I agree with your sentiment although the n word wouldn't have been my choice for that analogy.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

Honestly? That I would rather have Meta (and a bunch of Western countries, while we're at it) lift restrictions on that front first before they go against LGBT people.

I'm not on board with the idea that edgy or offensive humor is valuable in itself, but I absolutely abhor the scenario where offended conservative and traditionalist views are treated in their own terms while marginalized groups are considered needy or nagging if they ask for the same treatment.

Also not on board with comedians assuming that noting their ignorance or bigotry is the same as not having a sense of humor, incidentally. Everybody sucks, is my point.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

My opinion is that satire must hurt. Otherwise it may have no impact, then it is nothing else than cheap comedy. But it is possible that it hurts too much, so that some people cannot endure it. Society has a duty to protect the weak as well as the artists. It is a narrow line.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Satire’s dead, but I’d love to see a revival of both it and serious human existence within my lifetime c:

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Satire may have been instrumental in its own demise.

People see satire and are either smart enough to understand it - maybe even find it funny, or are offended by it. Those who are offended generally become more entrenched in their beliefs and those who aren't either don't see the satire for the warning it is, or do, but mostly choose not to do something about the subject.

And since people have seen what the satirised subject could be like, and they didn't take action, the subject might take the opportunity to move a little closer to the form it took in satire.

Given this and enough time, satire and reality can become indistinguishable.

And here we are.

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