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"import" like it's livestock. Strategically avoiding the word "migration", too.
Human Commodities
CEOs man...
Ya'll are not reading between the lines here.
"The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low,"
The "AND super-motivated [sic]" is key here. By "super-motivated" he means working 80-100 hours for shit pay.
Yeah, both American citizens and H1Bs area getting tired of this shit.
On another vein, his government "positions" listing
"We need super high-IQ small-government revolutionaries willing to work 80+ hours per week on unglamorous cost-cutting." for "zero pay".
Is code for, "I want corporate lackies for this job." Corporations will pay it's reps to "work" in these government positions and basically lobby. No one else will bother because normal people got mouths to feed.
It's not really "between the lines" when he's been straight up shouting exactly that for years. He's been very vocal about it at least since he bought Twitter, "keeping only the most talented ones who really want to work" and it turned out that only the immigrants who can't AFFORD to leave stayed for shit pay.
Another fun thing about H1B holders is that, in their home countries, there are often kickbacks and indenture schemes that mean that they're spending the first year of their working life in the US paying back someone for "arranging" the work. So if they quit, they're in debt to the mob, and if they don't return, their families are at risk.
I'd love to see the entire program scrapped. It's such bullshit, and always has been. If there is some real talent that is just somehow so rare it cannot be found here, then give people full citizenship after they've been scouted for and found. With absolutely ZERO strings attached to any company. If they are so very rare and such high caliber that Americans are somehow lacking, then why on Earth wouldn't we want them to STAY here and thrive and contribute long-term to this country? Hell, they might even found a company or two...
Instead, we have them stay here six years max on the H-1B and paid less than Americans. WTF? I thought these people are so sought after and so rare, etc...we are going to send them away after six years?
What is so incredible is that the education system in the US is so fucked that so so so so SO many high skill, high education jobs need to be brought in from overseas. Meanwhile Elon just wants to fuck over the education system in the US even more.
The reason why he wants to bring in foreign labor is, in all likelihood, to make his employees more easily controlled. Expats are less likely to raise a fuss about their living conditions and may not have much of a connection to the political movements around them to take part in protests. Also if those employees have their visa's dependent entirely on the whims of their employer, if they DO get uppity in any way, they can face almost immediate deportation upon being fired.
In short, he does not give a fuck about Americans. It is 100% about control and exploitation.
And what happens to us who were born here? Where are we supposed to go when all the jobs that we could fill are being taken by H1Bs and Optimus robots?
We are all meant to go fuck ourselves.
And what happens to us who were born here? Where are we supposed to go when all the jobs that we could fill are being taken by H1Bs and Optimus robots?
these immigrants are not taking the jobs that most Americans work. high-skilled Indians and Chinese are filling shortages in engineering, doctors, etc. vast majority of Americans are not competing with these groups
these immigrants are not taking the jobs that most Americans work. high-skilled Indians and Chinese are filling shortages in engineering, doctors, etc. vast majority of Americans are not competing with these groups
Eh, doubtful except in very niche areas, perhaps. It's more likely Americans are not willing to work like indentured servants like H-1Bs are forced into.
If there is a real need to trot the globe to scout for rare talent that we cannot source here, why the ruse of the H-1B program? Why not just offer people full citizenship with no strings attached to any corporate entity?
shortage of engineers? are you kidding me?
I know of two first degree of separation SWEs who can't land jobs. One worked at microsoft for like a decade.
FTFA:
Other followers accused Musk of simply not wanting to pay top talent what it's worth.
Bingo, got it in one. They don't want to pay american talent american wages, they want to pay all talent 3rd world country wages while they themselves pocket a 50 billion dollar contract.
It's a common trick used in American Hiring Practices, knowingly set an impossible standard for hiring. Turn around and say "We can't fill this position with candidates in the US, here's the list of people we rejected. Can we get approved for hiring visas?"
And The Government falls for that bullshit guaranteed... after some donations to the Super PAC of course.
There are obviously easily exploited loopholes to enable H1B visas especially for a couple of businesses that hire the most H1Bs.
As long as most countries in this world have median wages well below 33% of the US there will be rampant outsourcing / under the table labor / vastly lower comp H1B roles.
If you truly try to minimize your cost of living the cost to live in the US is surprisingly cheap. Most shit we buy is optional. Rice and beans are cheap, you can find people giving away clothes, transportation can be very cheap and a simple pay as you go phone can be very cheap and be your access to the internet and is fully functional. You can make enough with a job that just pays minimum wage to send enough money home and feed an entire family without yourself worrying about being homeless or going without food.
Immigrants tend to try harder and put up with more bullshit than natives because things are that much better here than back home. Hell, we have food pantries! That's basically unheard of in most of the world. Billions still struggle to put food on the table outside of the US and western europe. I relied on food pantries as a kid to survive in poverty. My wife is from a third world country and couldn't believe people would just give food to those in need freely.
I'm not here to bash on immigrants, i'm just pointing out that even the poor in the US generally have more privilege than they could possibly realize. The vast excess of the top 10% in the US is crazy, and the .1% here are so egregiously overcompensated it should probably be criminal.
He's running out of inexperienced engineers to burn through. He statedv early on that he wanted to create a surplus of engineers to drive down the cost.
That cost being, paying the engineers' salaries.
I work pretty closely with a lot of young engineers. My work brings them in as interns, hires them, but doesn't pay them very well and after 2 years we have new engineers because they've all found better jobs. Saturating the market with talent really hasn't worked out the way he wanted it to, because as it turns out that's nothing new.
So now he's gotta find a new way to pay engineers less.
So now he's gotta find a new way to pay engineers less.
I imagine it would be something like this:
Position: Senior ML Software Developer
Join the XTesla420X family of goal-oriented, success-driven, rockstar AI/Machine Learning engineers who aren't afraid to move fast and break things in the name of automation and mankind's future.With no middle management, you get to be your own boss* and set your own working hours**. The only thing holding to hold you back from greatness is your own potential, and we're ready to help you thrive in a fast-paced environment where the sky the limit and your own mortality is nothing but a temporary setback.
Requirements:
- 10 years industry experience
- No kids
- A 210% work ethic
- Intimacy with a Python
Compensation & Benefits:
- Exposure in lieu of salary
- Office vending machine
- Office cocaine (unavailable for remote workers)
- Optional unpaid vacation days on statuatory holidays
* reporting directly to Elon Mouske
** minimum 80 per week
And how about healthcare? Or will accepting the offer enroll me in clinical trials to have my brain implanted into a robot? Robots don't need healthcare, pay, sleep, time off, or any of the other things fleshies need to live. Of course, the organic components, such as the brain and possibly spinal cord will require occasional maintenance, but the upkeep cost for those is minimal
POV Me after having my brain put in an Optimus robot: [Says "Kill Me" repeatedly]
Deport the foreigners taking our jobs except for the ones who directly benefit me.
What. A. Shitstain.
They don't have to lie any more. They only need 4 years.
Don't forget that (using his words) he himself was an illegal alien that overstayed his student visa and started to work in his first startup with invalid status. Kick him out and ban him from re entry, no exceptions!
He didn't "overstay" his visa. The minute he set foot on US soil, he dropped out of the college he enrolled in and leveraged his father's connections to land that startup job. When your family owns an emerald mine, they might not be US citizens, but they're definitely going to make friends with US citizens, and those are the people you schmooze.
Can we ask Musk to volunteer to become the world's first recorded instance of a Mellified Man? Then science can determine if it's truly a medical marvel or not. He'll be the only one to have done it! I think his ego might go for that.
Plus it'll be sweeter when we eat him. Candied CEO sounds kinda good.
Finally, you could sincerely call him a sweet man
Musk doesn't want a championship sports team, he wants a cheap, desperate, obedient source of labour.
Why work for a man who expects his workers to work "hardcore" for 80 hours a week without any overtime pay?
Sounds like exploitation to me.
Musk likened hiring top foreign talent to building a championship sports team and argues that there is a shortage of talented and motivated American engineers.
There's not, it's just they want good wages and working conditions
As an employer the way to get cheaper workers that accept worse conditions is flood the labor pool. With the cost of an American education, H1B's will always take less. Not just from foreign countries, but also from "better" countries with free education.
This isn't just bad for the tech sector, it's bad for everything that requires an advanced degree.
I don't understand how anyone thinks immigrants steal jobs. You can't just show up to a workplace and collect a paycheque, you have to get hired first.
Employers are giving jobs to immigrants. And they know it because they are the ones getting the visas.
Immigrants are in a more precarious position and are harder to get on board with unionisation efforts. The H1B visa specifically is designed specifically to undermine worker solidarity. If you're on a H1B visa and you get fired, your visa is cancelled and you go back home, to be replaced by someone else. There's similar incentives at play for undocumented migrants.
Any immigration that doesn't include a full green card is bad for all workers.
It doesn't need to be a green card, it could be time-limited, as long as it's not locked to a single sponsor.
The big lie behind the H1B program is that the jobs cannot be filled by Americans. The way the jobs are advertised is carefully crafted to exclude Americans, requiring specific coursework and qualifications that are named differently from US equivalents.
I was in consulting and was a senior exec, I saw how the game was played. They should burn the whole shithouse down to the ground and start over. The way it works now benefits nobody but the billionaires, and billionaires should not exist until we are all rich.
I don’t understand how anyone thinks immigrants steal jobs
Econ 101 Supply/Demand charts tell us that if the supply of laborers goes up, the price for each laborer must fall.
So it's less stealing jobs and more stealing bargaining power for pay.
Of course, this ignores the price fixing power of monopsony. Prices can also be low because there is only one buyer of labor (or one big cartel) in an industry that refuses to employ outside of a certain price range. If you pick up Peter Theil's book "Zero to One", you'll read all about how the end goal of a business owner is to corner the market and dictate price within the industry.
Prices can also be low because there is only one buyer of labor (or one big cartel) in an industry that refuses to employ outside of a certain price range.
There's a lot of under-the-table wage-fixing within the industry. It's usually masked by the use of HR consultants for "benchmarking" of salaries (i.e., providing the desired answer for a reasonable fee). They then inevitably tell the employer that their salaries are higher than their competitors, and the employers use that as leverage to reduce salary increases or cut pay and benefits.
Why don't you make the education system here in the US better first.
LOL who the fuck am I kidding.