Can we finally stop pretending that Israel is an "ally." I consider the state of Israel to be an enemy to the general American public.
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
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The general American public just voted in favor of this. The alliance will only be strengthend under Trump.
That doesn't change my opinion. That alliance is to the U.S. government, not to the U.S. people. I consider them to be a hostile entity.
Okay, but they can't be an enemy of the american public if that same public votes for a president that supports Israel and its genocide.
Don't know what to tell you. I'm expressing my opinion on how I personally see them, which is an entity that is openly hostile to the American public.
People voting for them doesn't negate this. It only means that people vote against their own self-interests, which is nothing new as we've seen time and time again.
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“Israel’s far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has ordered preparations for the annexation of the occupied West Bank ahead of US President-elect Donald Trump taking office in January 2025.”
For the American voters to make sure it sinks in.
But Harris was responsible of this genocide!!! Turd said he would solve the war in a day!!!1!!1!!111!one!!1
And that's actually true. He'd just let Israel complete the genocide.
The Harris campaign made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of a +6 points gain. That's the fault of the campaign's calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with Liz Cheney and having the most lethal Military.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It's still on the campaign. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
Quote
Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
Let's be honest, I voted for Harris. But her message was essentially:
"Vote for Kamala Harris. She will enable a slow genocide. But her opponent, Donald Trump, will enable a fast genocide. She is clearly the superior choice."
Saying that Kamala would be better than Trump was objectively true. However, it was also just shit, brain-dead, zero-awareness messaging. You cannot practically run on a message of, "yes, I will enable genocide, but my opponent will enable it WORSE!"
It's just a shit, poorly thought out message. Who actually is this for? Those pro-Zionist voters won't be persuaded either way. Those who want to see the Palestinians genocided will go with Trump instead, as he'll get the job done faster. Those opposed to genocide were asked to hold their nose and vote for someone who should be on trial at the Hague, simply because she was running against someone who deserves to be on trial at the Hague even more!
It's like running a campaign saying, "yes, I have some Nazi tendencies, but my opponent is a full-on avowed Nazi. My opponent is objectively worse."
A statement can be true, while also being just complete shit in terms of campaign strategy.
"Yes, my candidate is Mussolini, but her opponent is Hitler! Clearly a vote for Mussolini is better than a vote for Hitler!"
"Yes, my candidate is Mussolini, but her opponent is Hitler! Clearly a vote for Mussolini is better than a vote for Hitler!"
Why would you be criticising Mussolini if you didn't secretly want Hitler to win?! I cannot possibly come up with any other explanation. You must be trying to trick us.
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It's more the non-voters that it needed to sink in with but it's too late for that.
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Silver lining we'll soon get to know if the Scriptures are right about that second coming of Christ. If all the believer could just fuck off to heaven, the heathens might get some peace.
please please please please please please please please
Well would it matter if I could already tell you right now if it's right or not? Just saying, based on results so far, it's 99.9999% surely not right. Sorry.
Narrowing down the options to apartheid/genocide and the abolition of the Jewish character of Israel. In other words killing off the last vestiges of a non-fascist version of Zionism that a "small Israel" could allow.
So, liberal Zionists: which side are you on?
Dude I gave up the moment I heard on the radio that the fucker killed Rabin. If you want to live in Zion move to New York.
...also, to the rest of the thread: If you think the US election was decided on Israel, please go outside and touch grass. Talk to people. You know, those flesh-and blood things usually found within metal containers on rubber circles that you rarely interact with. Ask them. Practically nobody in the US gives a fuck, and especially not enough of a fuck for it to be the #1 cause of things.
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Wow, they are really going to do it, aren't they?
they've been self-defensing their way towards the total elimination and annexation of Palestine from the 1940s to now.
this whole thing really should not surprise anyone that knows even a simplified history of god's special country. they have been slowly and steadily inching towards their goal. they're not really shy about it.
hear it from Israel's first prime minister
"You are no doubt aware of the JNF's activity in this respect. Now a transfer of a completely different scope will have to be carried out. In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the Arab fellahin." He added: "Jewish power [in Palestine], which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out this transfer on a large scale."
"With compulsory transfer we have a vast area... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it."
Here's another guy, a director of the JNF, Joseph Weitz
"There is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, and to transfer all of them, save perhaps for [the Arabs of] Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one [Bedouin] tribe. And only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers and the Jewish problem will cease to exist. There is no other solution."
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They've already BEEN doing it. And this was the critical failure of all those who argued that Trump would be better for Palestine than Harris. I voted for Harris, but I am not at all surprised this cost her the election.
Israel doesn't need to do ANYTHING differently to complete its genocide of Gaza and the West Bank. It is already on that road, actively engaging in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians. And the Biden/Harris team have, through their inaction, fully endorsed this genocide.
Kamala was so comically bad on Palestine that the only hair-brained thing they could come up with to defend her stance was, "well...well...Trump will let the Israelis do a genocide EVEN FASTER!"
Kamala's campaign slogan was, "a vote for Mussolini is better than a vote for Hitler!"
And then she was surprised when enough liberal voters in swing states stayed home to cost her the election. It turns out, there are plenty of people who will NOT turn out to vote for Mussolini just because Hitler is also on the ballot. They won't vote for either of them; they'll just say "a pox on both your houses!" and stay home.
Is a vote for Mussolini better than a vote for Hitler? Objectively, probably yes. Hitler objectively did a lot worse harm than Mussolini. But you also can't be shocked when people refuse to hold their noses and vote for Mussolini, just because Hitler might be objectively worse. Ultimately, it's your fucking fault for expecting people to vote for Mussolini.
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Are you surprised?
They've been signaling it for more than a year now.
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What does annexation actually mean? Do all the Palestinians get Israel citizenship and voting rights? Or is this officially implementing apartheid or expulsion/death?
I'm no diplomat but having the government officially annex it sure seems like an escalation. Many (most?) of those settlements are illegal even under Israeli law* so the way to legitimize them is to annex the territory, because "it doesn't have a government now".
* According to Wikipedia, Israel's Supreme court has said repeatedly (until 2012 at least) that the settlements are illegal, apparently against the word of the Executive branch of the government. And then last year, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform
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But but but, i didn't vote for Kamala because she wouldn't do exactly as I wanted for the Palestinians! Things should be getting better for them, not worse, how could this be happening?
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