this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024

-33 points (18.9% liked)

PC Gaming

8767 readers

994 users here now

For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki

Rules:

Be Respectful.
No Spam or Porn.
No Advertising.
No Memes.
No Tech Support.
No questions about buying/building computers.
No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
No Let's Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
No off-topic posts/comments, within reason.
Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates. (Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources. If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

EXiLExJD@lemmy.ca

UncleBadTouch@lemmy.ca

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

-33

How to get a refund for Planescape Torment on Steam? (lemmy.nz)

submitted 1 month ago by dragonfucker@lemmy.nz to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Drag's refund request for Planescape Torment was denied by Steam. The game has sat in drag's inventory for several months, but drag has only played for 8 minutes and in that time decided not to play it.

Drag would like advice on gaming the Steam refund system, because drag doesn't agree with their reason for denying the refund. Are there any gamebreaking bugs or problems like that which Steam might accept?

Drag will post the reason for wanting a refund in a comment, and asks that you confine discussion of drag's reason or why drag should just enjoy the game to underneath that comment, so that the rest of the thread can be about the actual question.

top 25 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] Darkenfolk@dormi.zone 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Straight from the site:

What can I request a refund for? Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any title that is requested within 14 days of purchase and has been played for less than 2 hours (this includes online, offline and shared library playtime). Even if you fall outside of the refund rules we've described, you can submit a request and we'll take a look at it.

Looks pretty clear to me, you had plenty time to refund it.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Refund policy is pretty clear. They make exceptions sometimes but certainly not after 8 months. Maybe just accept that you shouldn't have sat on it for 8 months before installing it if you weren't sure you were going to like it and were going to want a refund otherwise?

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 12 points 1 month ago

No, they make all kinds of exceptions. I'd just write a note about it not meeting expectations when you actually played it.

If they don't accept it, I'd just eat the few bucks as the cost of learning to inspect purchases right when you make them, whether that's software or physical.

[–] Firipu@startrek.website 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why do you write like an orc? Is there an rpg reason for this? Or is this something personal I am totally missing?

"I" is gender neutral no?

As for your actual question, steam is insanely flexible with refunds, but you're pushing it with a request 7.5months after the generous 14days.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Drag is aware that it's bad manners to answer a question with a question, but where did you and the other person get the "8 months" figure from?

[–] Firipu@startrek.website 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Several months and the 8 minutes probably lead to confusion. You haven't my answer yet. Why do you speak like an orc in third person?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Because drag uses first person neopronouns. Drag's drag/dragself pronouns are person independent. They're inflected and conjugated the same way in all grammatical persons. They represent drag's identity as a dragon rider.

https://lemmy.nz/post/15737101

[–] Firipu@startrek.website 7 points 1 month ago

You do you mate.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You may be able to appeal it by escalating your request to an actual human. Email everyone who has their email address on their public employee page. Even Gabe himself. Dude actually answers a lot of the time.

Doesn't even matter what the issue is, this is typically the quickest and best way to get real support from Valve and not just their crappy automated (or possibly volunteer) support system that just sends you FAQs based on keywords in your ticket.

They make exceptions for the refund policy often enough if you make a case with a real human who has common sense.

[+] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -18 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Drag wants a refund because the game doesn't allow gender customisation. Drag bought the game because it's a Dungeons and Dragons game. D&D is supposed to have good character customisation. Drag doesn't like CRPGs without gender select. Drag is trans and AMAB. Drag spent 18 years forced to live as a man, and isn't interested in spending any more time like that. Drag is absolutely fine if a game has a male protagonist you can't customise. The Master Chief is fine. Geralt is fine. But when drag is supposed to create a character and put part of dragself into the character, drag doesn't want to do that with a man.

Drag thinks that given it's a D&D game and a CRPG, there should have been a warning about limited gender options. Drag did read the game description that he/hims the Nameless One, but didn't read much into it because it's a 90s game, and old games are just like that. Morrowind does the same thing, and in fact NPCs will misgender you if you play a female character in the actual game. Drag assumed Torment would be like that, since the store page made a point of bragging about the customisability of the Nameless One. "Pick Your Path: Character creation is just the beginning. The Nameless One can change his class, alignment, and even gain new abilities based on your choices." Drag thought this would mean there would be customisability.

Steam disagreed, and said there's no legal defect in a game with this problem. Drag sees this as a symbolic issue, and would like the refund anyway. Again, please argue with drag's reasons for wanting a refund in reply to this comment and not in the rest of the thread.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Well, since you've invited us to argue...

Drag is absolutely fine if a game has a male protagonist you can’t customise. The Master Chief is fine. Geralt is fine. But when drag is supposed to create a character and put part of dragself into the character, drag doesn’t want to do that with a man.

The Nameless One is not much different from The Master Chief or Geralt. The game is telling the story of a specific character. In this case, that character is a man. The fact that it's based on D&D is kind of irrelevant; it sounds like you made an assumption that wasn't stated anywhere, and are now trying to finagle a refund far outside of the refund window as a result.

While I certainly understand and sympathize with not wanting to play a character that doesn't match your gender, it strikes me as kind of hypocritical to be okay with doing so for some games but not others. Personally I'd say, don't play it if you feel strongly about it, but it's not grounds for a refund.

[–] Case@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 1 month ago

Yeah, TNO is absolutely an individual character you happen to be in the shoes of.

Without spoiling anything, the game IS TNO's story.

If that doesn't interest you, best of luck in your refund request.

That being said, I've only gotten around to getting one tattoo in my life - The rune of torment.

[+] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Where's the character creation screen in Halo Combat Evolved? Where's the creation screen in the Witcher 3? Can you assign stats to the Master Chief? Can you decide Geralt's class?

Halo and The Witcher aren't roleplaying games, other than Halo Reach. So it's not the same.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The games clearly aren't the same, but the premise of Planescape: Torment is that the game is telling you a predefined story about a specific character. That character happens to have lived many, many unique lives. You aren't deciding who he is on a fundamental level, just what his skillset is right now, similar to spending ability points in Witcher. Unlike e.g. Baldur's Gate, where you are a Bhaalspawn but you get to decide the specifics, Torment's protagonist is largely predefined.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's still not enough information to determine that gender customisation isn't in the game. Commander Shepard is a predefined character with a set story. The Courier and the Sole Survivor have defined stories. The choice to deny gender choice does not follow logically from anything you've said. Drag simply asks that the store page list the fact you are leaving unsaid: that gender is predefined. Gender is not personality, as Fallout and Mass Effect demonstrate.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 6 points 1 month ago

Take it up with Steam, I guess. Ten seconds on Google could have answered the question before you bought the game. If you feel this strongly about it, maybe you should be checking for each game you buy before you buy them.

[–] antaymonkey@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My human... I am unequivocally one hundred billion percent behind you with regards to who you are and how you present. With that said... it seems to me that expecting a crpg from the NINETIES to have character customization in line with today's social norms thirty ish years later kinda falls on you. Furthermore asking for a refund 8 months post purchase (where Steam's policy has ever been two WEEKS) after failing to research even at a base level... I think you just gotta kiss that eight bucks goodbye (or whatever it was at time of purchase).

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -5 points 1 month ago

Pokemon Red had gender selection in 1996. It was a standard feature in CRPGs at the time.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I've given a way to maybe get that refund, but I also want to say: You should just play it. Yeah, your party is pretty much set in stone in it, but it's arguably one of the best CRPG D&D games to exist. It's not like you're really gonna make a statement to the now defunct developer that made the game. Black Isle doesn't exist. Interplay doesn't exist.

But if you're dead set on needing the full custom character experience, may I suggest Temple of Elemental Evil? The story dramatically changes depending on if you are good or evil alignment and it's got one helluva an opening scene if you're evil.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

CRPGs fundamentally ask the player to self insert into the player character, and drag will take psychic damage if drag self inserts into a man. Drag is perfectly happy to self insert into tragic stories like KOTOR and feel bad as part of a game's story. That's the same as watching a sad or scary movie, that's fine. And drag would even be willing to enjoy Torment's dysphoria if it were an intended part of the experience, and you're actually able to play the Nameless One as a dysphoric trans person. But gender dysphoria that isn't accounted for in the game's design doesn't lead to catharsis. That's just feeling bad with no purpose to it.

Drag isn't mad at the developer for this. As you say, the developer is dead, so there's no point being angry. Drag is angry at Steam for selling this game without a content warning. Drag is angry about false advertising. This should be a part of the store's interface, the same as age ratings, or the recent decision to force games to disclose kernel level anticheat.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Drag is angry about false advertising.

It would only be false advertising if Steam said you could choose your gender when you can't, which they don't.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They said you can pick your path. It's not true. It shouldn't be in the features section.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 7 points 1 month ago

Pick Your Path: Character creation is just the beginning. The Nameless One can change his class, alignment, and even gain new abilities based on your choices.

It says nothing about Gender, and it specifically refers to 'his'. This perfectly describes what you can do, so it certainly belongs in the 'Features' section. It also doesn't mention Race or Species; I'd much rather play as a non-human, but I'm not winging about it, because nowhere did the game tell me I could play as a non-human. I'm not going to keep arguing with you about it, because clearly neither of us are making any headway.