Though abortion isn't about men vs. women... It's more like everyone against some religuous bigots.
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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It is far, far from only religious bigots who oppose abortion.
Is it? I mean I probably live in a different culture than most of the people here. I don't know that many people in real life who are opposed in the way I read from the news from overseas (or our more catholic neighbors). And what I've read that science has a differentiated stance on it. It's okay up to a certain point and consequences need to be factored in and weighed... What else are reasons to be strictly anti-abortion?
I dont know how big it is relative to the religious side, but there are groups who oppose abortion access because "men should be able to decide too", and 'none' is a compromise they are fine with.
There are others who think it violates the freedoms of the fetus.
I'm sure there is some religious crossover with those groups too though, but maybe not as blatant.
I suppose there are men who want an abortion, too. Right? I mean if some accident happened with the contraception and you find out a few weeks later when your partner misses their period. Or you have second thoughts. Or you need to finish your education before spending the next 15 years raising a kid and supporting a family right now... I believe there are quite some reasons for the man-side of things, to have an opinion?! I don't think going nuclear on the options is a valid compromise for anyone?
Oh sure, but those obviously aren't in the anti-camp.
Its a compromise for some, not all. Which is why I also say there is probably some religious involvement there as well, just not how they are pushing the propaganda.
Hmm, I still don't understand. I mean if men want to be able to decide, too... being anti and wanting a law that strictly prohibits it for everyone, also strips them from the ability to make a decision. And additionally it's not a compromise. Forcing someone to something regardless, e.g. bearing a child is one of the extremes, not some middle-ground in between... You'd need a proper reason to force people to do something. And that can't be I want to decide over someone else's life. So either it's religuous or backed with some reasoning that's more than an opinion, or just for the sake of it.
being anti and wanting a law that strictly prohibits it for everyone, also strips them from the ability to make a decision
Ah, here is your first issue - you expect rational thought. It isn't, they aren't.
Forcing someone to something regardless, e.g. bearing a child is one of the extremes, not some middle-ground in between..
The woman's life, opinions, etc, dont matter to them. Its a middle ground for these men, nothing else. I'd also say I'd assume for them its more about controlling what a woman can do, and what they believe is the purpose of a woman. Which is why I say there are likely religious undertones behind a lot of it (or just straight up misogyny).
You'd need a proper reason to force people to do something
"I'm the guy and this is what I want" - that is their reason.
Dont expect any sort of coherent or rational thought from anyone anti-abortion. Either they are incredibly ignorant, misogynistic, or a religious zealot.
Or, more likely, a combination of the three.
It's not about religion at the highest levels of government. It's about controlling women and birth rates, and yes, privileging men by returning them to the "head of the household"
Imagine being such a big strong man that you need that title to make it through your day.
Typical behaviour to compensate for a small wee-wee. And personality issues.
There are definitely women with kids who are against abortion. Source: I know some of them.
My sister in law with 8 children is "against it as a contraceptive" which I'm not convinced has been a thing for more than a handful of people that wasn't due to lack of proper contraceptive access and education, or mental disorder.
However she AND her religious husband have been "reconsidering" purely from the goodness of their hearts and surely not because the majority of their children are girls, the oldest of which is soon to be a teenager, I'm sure. Definitely not because now it affects their family directly...
And because I'm sure someone will get a giggle out of this anecdote, they forbid any sleepovers with BOYS because they don't want anyone "making purple", but) and completely dismiss the fact that their girls could decide they would rather make pinker pink.
Seems like a classic case of if I can't have one you can't either.
I totally understand the point and I’m not trying to undermine, but I’m curious is this close to the actual ratio for 79%?
And to be pedantic, some men have uteri.
While this is true, it seems to me like a bad idea to bring this up in a political conversation with an anti-choice voter...
Depends on your goal. If you genuinely think you can change their mind then... Maybe. Otherwise, why not stick up for trans & intersex folks?
I think the best thing for trans/nonbinary/intersex/etc. people, and also for changing the minds of anti-abortion people, is to discuss abortion without implicating gender stuff at all. It doesn't really do much to stick up for them, and it's likely to reduce support and increase hate for them and their issues, while decreasing the chance that the anti-choice voter listens to you.
Drag is trans and thinks there's never a time inappropriate to discuss trans issues. The statement "men can't get pregnant" is implicit transphobia. It's a microaggression and it shouldn't be ignored.
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100% sounds like an exaggeration. Around half a percent of men can get pregnant. Some of those are surely anti-choice.
This just in, most people opposed to theft/murder/crime in general haven't been direct victims but want to see a better society. These numbers go to show that numbers pulled out of thin air are meaningless.
Make your point without being anti- another group. Stop the US vs THEM bs.
I believe it for sure.