1
submitted 9 hours ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
top 35 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] [email protected] -1 points 53 minutes ago

Is the blue in the bottom image the seas and oceans of the world or areas that China claims as the South China sea?

Ramming Philippines ships in Phillipines waters is hardly peaceful conduct.

Don't get me wrong, USA are horrific and absolutely need to be held to account but that doesn't mean China are good guys. All major world powers act like dicks to maintain their own interests.

Oh, and since when is China socialist? The weather disparity there is hardly people's ownership of the means of production.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

@yogthos
well... if the map also shows where the US has acted clandestinely for its own imperialist purposes, the map gets a little redder.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

@yogthos Your map is wrong. This comment from the linked thread probably sums it up best...

"loaExMachina
@sh.itjust.works

Image says “Has invaded since PRC was founded”, not “is occupying right now”, don’t try to change the terms of the debate when contradicted. You still could’ve made a point that China invaded much fewer countries than the US, but at least try to have an accurate map or the accurate words."

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

pretty disingenuous to call border skirmishes invasions if you ask me

[-] [email protected] -2 points 3 hours ago

@yogthos If you send your military across another countries' border without that countries' permission that's generally referred to as an invasion, but don't let facts get in the way of your CCP shilling.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Invasion is an act where a country enters another country by force with the objective of taking control of it. But don't let your lack of English cprehension stop you from making a clown of yourself.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/invasion

[-] [email protected] -2 points 3 hours ago

@yogthos CCP military went into Indian territory without permission, not once but on several occasions, many of which resulted in violence. On each occasion China military wasn't crossing the border to have a picnic, the goal is the gradual encroachment of territory, a tactic used by CCP with 17 countries that CCP think they own. https://theweek.com/news/world-news/china/955728/all-countries-china-territory-disputes

I'm curious now, can the CCP stlll pay you to shill for them with the Chinese economy so bad now, or do you shill for free to show patriotism?

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

I have no idea what CCP is.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

@yogthos You know what the PRC is but no idea what the CCP is....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're not a very good shill are you, funny, but not very good.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

I know what CPC is, I have no idea what CCP is. Maybe it's just that people who huff too much gas can't spell Communist Party of China correctly? 🤷

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

@yogthos In the West it's CCP. Call it what you want in China. Either way the bottom part of your map is wrong.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 40 minutes ago

nah, it's called CPC, and anybody who can't spell that right outs themselves as an ignoramus. Once corrected, and insisting on continuing to spell it wrong they out themselves as an idiot.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

@yogthos Technically, they have also invaded themselves.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 8 hours ago
[-] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago

Not invading other countries is a choice, not a skill.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago

Big time, despite all the colonization the burger empire still can't keep up with China. Hence all the crying about over production.

[-] [email protected] -3 points 7 hours ago

No, I meant China's lack of colonies is a skill issue. They've tried often enough, but usually got BTFO by a small set of islands in front of their coast, or a few hundred Europeans.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago

They’ve tried often enough

[Citations needed]

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

Nah, China hasn't tied making colonies. It has developed using its own means, and now it has surpassed the US.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago

China doesn't occupy every nook and cranny of the oceans and waterways on the planet. Whoever made this chart is a fuckin moron. Humans cannot realistically engage in long term oceanic invasion and occupation.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 3 hours ago

Includes Korea for America. Doesn't include Korea for China.

I'm starting to think this is total horseshit guys

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

Ah yes, China helping Korea liberate itself from the US invasion is occupation. I'm starting to think I want whatever drugs Fleur is having.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Yog, where is P̶a̶d̶m̶e̶ Tibet?

Is it safe? Is it alright?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 9 hours ago
[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago

Liberating the people of Tibet from a feudal theocracy, from poverty and illiteracy. The horror they must be suffering.

I don’t think many Tibetans would welcome a CIA-backed Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama coup government.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago
[-] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago

More like became a vassal of the empire after WW2 along with the rest of Europe.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 hours ago

@yogthos Ummm.... you sure about that?

(Also, China is not the only socialist empire in the history 😉 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

[-] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

when you definitely understand what imperialism is

[-] [email protected] 0 points 6 hours ago

Look, can't we agree that neither country gives a shit about the working class? Nation states are so 20th century. Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?

That said... What do the different shades of colors mean in the top image? Only half fucked over?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

Because i want rail roads crossing the world and massive buildings and a global shipping network and all the things that are only possible because of states. If u want to return to monkee feel free but the rest of us would like to have a civilization. Fundamentally i disagree with ur stupid ideals even IF we put aside the reality of defending anything that working people build from capital.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

No we can't because that's demonstrably false. The state in China clearly represents the interests of the majority.

90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes

The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf

From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4

From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008

By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

People in China also enjoy high social mobility https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html

And finally, they have record household savings https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j

Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?

The real question is why do anarchists have nothing to show aside from rhetoric for over a century. I'll take a functional worker state that actually improves lives of the people instead of living under dictatorship of capital while dreaming about unachievable utopia.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 6 hours ago

This is too close to dishonest to be persuasive.

The word "occupied" is doing the heavy lifting, but saying "invaded & occupied" implies that they've done as little invading as occupying, which is not true.

The USSR isn't included, so the implication that socialism means 0 occupations is also untrue.

All states that identify as socialist have done fewer invasions than the US, as a combination of having existed for less time, having had less power during that time and -yes - having a slightly lower inclination to invade.

All powerful states abuse their power to unacceptable (if differing) degrees. That's the nature of hierarchical power. All nation states are vermin.

this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
1 points (51.1% liked)

Socialism

5123 readers
73 users here now

Rules TBD.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS