this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
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By Jeremy Hsu on September 24, 2024


Popular smart TV models made by Samsung and LG can take multiple snapshots of what you are watching every second – even when they are being used as external displays for your laptop or video game console.

Smart TV manufacturers use these frequent screenshots, as well as audio recordings, in their automatic content recognition systems, which track viewing habits in order to target people with specific advertising. But researchers showed this tracking by some of the world’s most popular smart TV brands – Samsung TVs can take screenshots every 500 milliseconds and LG TVs every 10 milliseconds – can occur when people least expect it.

“When a user connects their laptop via HDMI just to browse stuff on their laptop on a bigger screen by using the TV as a ‘dumb’ display, they are unsuspecting of their activity being screenshotted,” says Yash Vekaria at the University of California, Davis. Samsung and LG did not respond to a request for comment.

Vekaria and his colleagues connected smart TVs from Samsung and LG to their own computer server. Their server, which was equipped with software for analysing network traffic, acted as a middleman to see what visual snapshots or audio data the TVs were uploading.

They found the smart TVs did not appear to upload any screenshots or audio data when streaming from Netflix or other third-party apps, mirroring YouTube content streamed on a separate phone or laptop or when sitting idle. But the smart TVs did upload snapshots when showing broadcasts from the TV antenna or content from an HDMI-connected device.

The researchers also discovered country-specific differences when users streamed the free ad-supported TV channel provided by Samsung or LG platforms. Such user activities were uploaded when the TV was operating in the US but not in the UK.

By recording user activity even when it’s coming from connected laptops, smart TVs might capture sensitive data, says Vekaria. For example, it might record if people are browsing for baby products or other personal items.

Customers can opt out of such tracking for Samsung and LG TVs. But the process requires customers to either enable or disable between six and 11 different options in the TV settings.

“This is the sort of privacy-intrusive technology that should require people to opt into sharing their data with clear language explaining exactly what they’re agreeing to, not baked into initial setup agreements that people tend to speed through,” says Thorin Klosowski at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital privacy non-profit based in California.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2449198-smart-tvs-take-snapshots-of-what-you-watch-multiple-times-per-second/ (paywall!!)

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[–] [email protected] 362 points 1 month ago (2 children)

LOL "if it was opt-in, no one would do it!"

no fucking shit. there is nothing worth watching that i would buy a smart tv for

[–] [email protected] 119 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

One issue that has come up recently in discussions on here is that it's hard to get dumb TVs or computer monitors in large format in 2024.

Not impossible, but surprisingly difficult. I went looking for a large computer monitor for some user who wanted a large one. I eventually found an older one on Amazon still for sale, but it's not that easy to get large computer monitors, which I think is part of what drives people to use smart TVs as computer monitors.

You can get projectors, but that's not what everyone's after.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 month ago (2 children)

A smart tv without an internet connection is usually close enough to a dumb TV. It's not like your TV needs regular security updates so leaving it off your home network is fine.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I do not know how true it is, but I've heard that some of them will create a mesh network if your neighbor has the same brand and it's connected to the internet.

I've always meant to look into it but I have big dumb TVs that work for now.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Open the tv and rip out the antenna. Y'all already forgot the classic secret agent trope of checking the hotel room for bugs? Now we all get to play that game!

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Nowadays the antenna is often embedded into the pcb, so no way to rip it out other than scraping off the traces

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 month ago (1 children)

if it was opt-in, no one would do it!

Which should be telling them that not only does no one want it, but maybe just maybe we already paid for your fucking TV. Either raise the price or stop being so fucking goddamn greedy to the point that you force us to make the government force you to stop.

Of course the bought and paid for US government won't, but hopefully EU governments will.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago

If they raise the price, then they only get money once. If they sell your data, now they have an income stream.

[–] [email protected] 253 points 1 month ago (4 children)

These are criminal violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Jail the motherfucking felon CEOs!

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 month ago (4 children)

But the supreme court ruled to save the conviction for the election.

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[–] [email protected] 220 points 1 month ago (2 children)

awful ethics aside what a disgusting waste of processing power. software already barely runs

[–] [email protected] 132 points 1 month ago (9 children)
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[–] [email protected] 180 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Would be nice if we could have some technological privacy laws written in this century.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

We need all the boomers in Capitol Senior Care Home to vacate first

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[–] [email protected] 160 points 1 month ago (13 children)

For example, it might record if people are browsing for baby products or other personal items.

Don't mind baby products and dildos or whatever.

They could see bank activity and even login credentials when someone is temporarily displaying their own passwords.

This basically ignores all security measures regarding everything. Sensitive communication, company secrets and so on.

That's fucking seriously huge. What the fuck?!

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[–] [email protected] 125 points 1 month ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 104 points 1 month ago (12 children)

Actual paper here.

https://arxiv.org/html/2409.06203v1

It is not sending full screenshots as anybody technical would already have guessed. It's a few KB over an hour, so it's content recognition hashes.

Opt out anyway. Their study shows the opt out option does indeed opt you out of it.

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

THIS is piracy. Along with all the other personal data selling.

[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Imagine the amount of bandwidth and energy saved, if they didn’t do any of this bullshit.

They are essentially using someone else’s money to get themselves more money. Fuck these people!

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 1 month ago

You hear that? It's a whisper.... It's a multinational multibillion dollar class action lawsuit coming after Samsung and LG. WTF!

[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 month ago (28 children)

Okay. So how do we turn it off!? I’ve read nothing in my Samsung manuals about this “feature” and here no instructions for turning it off.

[–] [email protected] 119 points 1 month ago (7 children)

Just don't hook it up to your wifi. Don't use any of its included apps. If you must stream get a separate device to do it.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

This is the correct answer. I actually disabled LG's version of it when I first heard about it. A few months later it had been reactivated in an update, so I just factory reset it and connected an old laptop.

You can't trust anyone — corporation or government — to protect or respect your privacy. Ever. If it's not open source and E2EE, assume that a criminal is going to view and process it for profit.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

No it is not the correct answer! The correct answer is to put the CEOs who perpetrate this criminal shit in prison for millions of counts of hacking and stalking!

Merely shrugging and implementing a technological workaround is not an appropriate response to someone perpetrating a felony against you!

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have a Samsung smart TV that is not connected to any networks, and every few days it will display a 'detecting device' loading screen when switching to my input that fails after 30 seconds or until I cancel it (canceling does not seem to impact its functioning)

I have no evidence but I strongly suspect this to be related to attempting to record and send device data to a remote server.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No Internet for the device

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

Yeah. My Samsung claws my firewall like a squirrel trapped in a box. It intensifies on certain hours of the day. I'm quite sure it also tries to send what devices are connected and what filenames are in attached memory sticks. Maybe also some media file checksums.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 month ago (21 children)

This is why our "smart" TV is not allowed to be connected to the internet.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But can you really be sure that it doesn't connect to another network? i have to check again but if i recall correctly there are TVs that try to connect to other open networks or even look for other TVs from the same manufacturer and connect through those to the internet. I have to double check this again, so take this with a grain of salt

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 month ago (16 children)

Something doesn't add up. How can a TV take 100 Screenshots of 4k content per second? No wifi has that bandwidth. No embedded processor has that capacity.

[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

It doesn't need a 4K screenshot. It needs enough data/metrics from any given single frame to run it through analytics and an algorithm to tailor ads. Backend surveillance like this isn't interested in fidelity to the human viewing experience. It needs identifying data. That can be had through a combination of low quality data scrapes done numerous times.

"Screenshot" is more like a metaphor here. Sort of like how your Apple or Google photos are "private," but the data and analytics taken from them you've given away. It's like if you told me I could look at all the photos on your phone and take as many notes and subject them to as much analysis as I wanted, but I promised not to actually physically keep your phone/photos. Probably makes you feel like your photos are securely still in your possession, but I got what I wanted. Your data is technically private, but my data about your data is mine.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 month ago (7 children)

yep, never allow them to connect to the internet

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago (16 children)

Do not connect your Smart TVs to network people, seriously. Just a bad idea. Use a media center PC or some other device that allows you to stream content, and make sure the TV itself is just a big monitor, nothing more.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 month ago (7 children)

LG by now will have several weeks of footage of me scrolling through streaming services and failing to find anything to watch.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Theoretically I could display highly illegal stuff and they would distribute it making them complicit?

Can the API be hacked to flood their servers with petabytes of cat pictures?

What is happening with the data? Where are the data savers?

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 month ago (8 children)

Btw, is there a firmware hacking/flashing scene for smart TVs?

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 month ago (20 children)

Friendly reminder that gaming console monitors, computer monitors, projectors, dumb TVs, and commercial displays exist.

Yes, I could hack a smart TV to disable its networking capabilities. (Merely withholding my wifi password is not reliable.) But that would still be showing the manufacturers that I find spyware TVs acceptable, and supporting the production of those models.

Also, this would be a good time to pressure our legislators into criminalizing this nonsense.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago (11 children)

So what do we do when smart TVs force us to connect to the Internet, and refuse to work until we do?

This is exhausting. We're speeding towards a horrible, privacy-less future.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (17 children)

The question now is, even if I don’t connect the TV to Internet, what TV brand should I buy? Currently I have LG, but no way I’m supporting that even without Internet connection.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago

The only sensible way to operate these TVs is with no internet connection. We run our entertainment through an AppleTV. If that ever starts showing ads at rest, I’ll replace it with a Mac mini or a NUC. Fuck these companies and their race to the bottom.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago

They collect all this data and then still cancel the most watched/best shows.

Morons.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago

"They found the smart TVs did not appear to upload any screenshots or audio data when streaming from Netflix or other third-party apps, mirroring YouTube content streamed on a separate phone or laptop or when sitting idle. But the smart TVs did upload snapshots when showing broadcasts from the TV antenna or content from an HDMI-connected device."

The world is owned by a big club, and you're not in it.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (6 children)

So they are allowed to pirate content actually? Even if it’s not Netflix or YouTube they take screenshots of potentially copyrighted content

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Use a pihole people, don't go barebacking the internet

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (7 children)

Doesn't help if the device has a baked in DNS address and just ignores your settings tho. Amazon and Google devices seem prone to that. After blocking everything on the common DNS ports except the PiHole, some of my devices have been acting kinda sluggish.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

Don't let your TV connect to the internet. I have mine on my wifi so I can control them using Home Assistant, but they're on an isolated VLAN with no internet access.

Edit: Of course, this only works if you use an external box for streaming, like an Nvidia Shield, Apple TV, Google Chromecast TV or whatever they call it now, etc.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, corporations treat you like a product. Whether you buy something from them or not. People are becoming the product that they sell.

I usually don't care very much until it starts to affect pricing for stuff based on some algorithms impression of how desperate you are. That algorithm started with travel (airlines, online booking fees for hotels and stuff) and has expanded.

If I need a new computer because mine isn't working, I don't really care that advertisers come at me with ads for their computer products. I need one, they want me to buy one, it's marketing. No worries.

If I need a new computer and suddenly all the prices for new systems goes up by $100 because it thinks I'm desperate enough to pay that, now I have a problem.

I still don't like them selling my data, and I'll do what I can to avoid it, but marketing is going to do marketing things.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

I run a pi hole and it blocks 1000 attempts per minute from a single Samsung TV, then it outright denies requests from the tv. Duck those douches.

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