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Why urban density is actually good for us (www.straight.com)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

She's right.

Density isn't the enemy. Bad arrangement of dense population is.

I live in a very densely-populated city (1200/km² or 3200/sq.mi.) but it's arranged semi-sanely. Within comfortable walking distance of my home are two parks, a Daoist temple, several schools at levels ranging from primary to 2nd-tier university, two (large!) farmer's markets, three shopping centres (two of which have sizable supermarkets), uncountable numbers of restaurants ranging from holes in the wall to fancy banquet halls... You get the idea. Within 3 stops of the nearest subway station or 5 stops of the nearest bus stop all that expands dramatically. I'm not sure I could even realistically count them all except to say that it doubles the number of Daoist temples and adds a sizable Buddhist one. (The nearest church is about 5 subway stops away, maybe 6.) Outside of work (which is an hour's commute by subway and bus away) I could live my entire life without being more than 20 minutes away from my home ... and never be bored or finding myself in a rut.

I can't say the same for Ottawa when I lived there. Hell, within fifteen minutes of DRIVING I couldn't find much in most of the places I lived.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

1200/km² or 3200/sq.mi.

At first you had me thinking, there is no way 1,200/km² is very densely-populated. That's like small town where everyone has a big lawn in the front and a pool in the back kind of numbers. But then I read 3,200/sq mi and realized you flipped the units.

That said, even 1,200/km² is perfectly dense enough to allow walkability to everything if done right. But the appeal of being a farmer is too great for the average person. They want to have to get into a vehicle every time they go to do something.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Flipped the units? I've never seen density measures as km²/person! Where are you seeing density measured as area per person?

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

But the appeal of being a farmer is too great for the average person. They want to have to get into a vehicle every time they go to do something.

We're getting to the point where that's neither here nor there because however much they want that, people can't afford it.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is true, but they are not going to down without a fight. Which is why we are seeing more and more "But please sir, if I can't have car, at least how about a new train? I can't be seen walking like pleb."

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Ottawa is a big mixed bag, and covers a huge area. I lived there some decades ago, so it might be different now:

Regions north of the 417 are generally pretty walkable; and the transit way (looks like it was replaced with the OTrain) was quite effective at moving me, so long as it was along that spine. The transitway was so good that a bus from Bayview to the south (Greenboro/south keys?) was faster than the train.

When I lived in Kanata, there was sweet jack shit to walk, or even bike, to and the transit was pretty horrendous. The one plus, was that the express busses were pretty spot on for getting me to work, but probably only because I happened to be working on the transit way at the time (Ottawa U area).

In the times I've visited since, Ottawa seems to be doing the right things in individual neighborhoods, but is struggling a bit with making each of these good things connect to each other.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I lived in Orleans, Kanata, and Nepean. Nepean was almost worth it. (Almost because although there was a massive shopping centre a road-crossing away from me, it was a road you couldn't conveniently cross and it took 20 minutes+ to get to it if you didn't want to take your life in your own hands.) Orleans and Kanata were suburban wastelands.

The Transitway was great if you lived in the suburbs and worked downtown. Feeder route to Transitway to downtown in the morning. Transitway to feeder route to home in the evening. If you had any other movement pattern OC Transpo was a nightmare of missed connections and half-hour buses that came once every hour. Basically if you weren't a civil servant working downtown or someone servicing the same, a car was obligatory if you were in Orleans or Kanata. (May God have mercy on your mortal soul if you needed to take THREE buses!)

When my friends (who live in Bells Corners) visited me here they were amazed at buses that came every five minutes except very late in the day (where that became ever 15), even on the weird distant routes. They were amazed at a subway system that got you 80% of the way there most of the time. And they were amazed at how little they had to use it when they weren't visiting specific places (like a museum or other such touristy tat).

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That all, more or less, aligns with my experience two decades ago. Maybe Ottawa isn't progressing as quickly as I thought...

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well, two decades ago is when I lived there, so...

But I did go back for a visit in 2016 and ... the buses were more comfortable at least? But the process of taking them was still frustrating AAF.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Kanata, Nepean, Bayshore.

We tried a bus commute. But Nepean to Hazeldean was just not happening.

Now they've got the train built by the guy who was fired from the vancouver job because his warm-weather trains couldn't even hack a vancouver winter, we're not surprised about the issues. He's doing waterloo next, so, yeah.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Just as a side note, public transit here goes to other cities. Not every five minutes, obviously, and at a slightly higher price. (Normal bus rides are 1-2RMB depending on the type of bus, where the buses that go intercity are 4-5RMB.) But you can actually catch a city bus at a city bus stop in Wuhan and take a bus trip to Ezhou/Huanggang about 80km away. Those buses go every 30m or so in the day and every 60m in the evenings.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

What we really need in Canada is for companies and jobs to spread out across multiple cities in Canada instead of being all concentrated in Toronto.

Then maybe everyone and their grandmother and all immigrants won't be trying to cram themselves into one small place in a country that has one of the largest areas on earth.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

The point of this article is we can and should make room in Toronto. There’s plenty of space if we accommodate with a better built form that isn’t sprawling detached homes.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It's cold in Canada, that's why everybody stick together to keep warm

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

🤦 Alright here ya go ⬆️

Now get outta here.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That’s on the government to build out cities in remote locations and then have extremely low costs for people/businesses to bring them in

Also needs high speed commercial rail between the cities

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

We HAVE other cities across Canada already that could be used as other locations for companies. We don't need to build more.

What the government needs to do is provide incentives for companies to move. But that could mean job losses in Toronto/Ontario. Would they be willing to make that sacrifice? I don't think so.

I agree with the high speed rail thing though.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ontario needs intermediaries between Toronto/Ottawa and Thunder Bay

The niche is currently occupied by Sudbury and Sault which isn’t ideal

There also isn’t really anything connecting to Hudson Bay/NW Passage (goes for the other provinces)

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Toronto easily has space to grow to 4 million residents plus. There are vast swaths of Canada's largest city that are built like some far-flung suburb, and that needs to change sooner rather than later

[-] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

Will you forget about Toronto already???

Toronto isn't the only place in Canada where people live.

Fuck. It's no wonder everyone else in Canada hates Torontonians. It's like you guys think you're the only ones in the whole goddamn country.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It doesn't make sense to get angry at this. The topic is density, Toronto is one of the densest cities in Canada. Toronto will be a central role on the topic one way or another, like Vancouver naturally will too (and is even mentioned in the article)

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I understand.

What I'm trying to say is that increasing density isn't a good solution.

We need to spread out across Canada. Give people the opportunity to move to other locations. Like in the US. They have so many cities to live in where there's tons of jobs. Not everyone has to cram in, say, New York for example. People can choose where they want to work and live.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I see. I sincerely hope that Canada doesn't meet that expectation of yours, because I too believe that increasing density is cities is essential. Of course so in big cities, but in smaller cities as well, and that too would help creating more economic opportunities in more places.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

In context, the focus on Toronto as an example makes sense.

Give the guy a pass this time.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Calgary is on it.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I always thought that habitat67 was a good example of how to do add density in a way that didn't feel dense. It's too bad this never got further than Expo 67.

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this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
90 points (86.9% liked)

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