this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2023
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Programmer Humor

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[–] [email protected] 147 points 1 year ago (15 children)

To be fair: If you are chaining ternary expressions, you deserve to suffer whatever pain the language happens to inflict upon you tenfold.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I get hating on PHP is a meme, and the language certainly has faults, but I feel like it’s no more arbitrary than how JavaScript behaves. And just like JavaScript, if you follow modern standards and use a modern version, it’s a much better experience. The language is only as good as the programmer.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but I feel like it’s no more arbitrary than how JavaScript behave

This is not the flex you think it is.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I didn’t mean it as a flex. It was a commentary on how the most commonly used programming language in current days is just as flawed as the most commonly used programming language in the past (in web development). Bad programmers are going to write bad code, regardless of the language.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd like to think Typescript does a lot of heavy lifting where JS fails when it comes to web development. On the otherhand there is no fixing fundamental flaws in PHP.

Sure bad programmers write bad code, but if a language tolerates something so obviously janky via implicit unseen magic, it's just encouraging bad practices. PHP makes this worse by tweaking core behaviours in weird and wacky ways that can easily lead to security vulnerabilities.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's why JS gets hates on just as much as PHP, if not more so these days as JS is fuckin everywhere!

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fault is the programmer for not using a switch statement.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (7 children)

"php doesn't stop me from coding like a moron, therefore php sucks"

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How about "php enables me to code like a moron", or even better, "php breaks common conventions and forces me to think about every little detail and special edge case, slowing me down if I don't want to accidentally 'code like a moron' "

Nested ternary operators emerge because of the lack of if/switch expressions (which is C fault), so they are "useful" (they shouldn't be). However, PHP is the only language that treats it as left associative. This has 2 problems:

  • You are forced to use parenthesis. Some (insane) people might do: (cond1) ? "A" : (cond2) ? "B" : "C" And it makes sense. Its ugly af, but it makes sense. But PHP now forces you to use more parethesis. It's making you work more.
  • It breaks convention. If you come from any other language and use ternary operators, you will get unexpected results. After hours of banging your head against the wall, you realize the problem. And now you have to learn a new edge case in the language, and what to do to actually use the language.

"But you shouldn't use ternary operators anyway! Use if/switch/polymorphic dispatch/goto/anything else"

True, but still, the feature is there, and its bad. The fact that there are other alternatives doesn't make the PHP ternary operator worse than other languages' ternary operator.

PHP works against you. That's the problem. The ternary operator is not a good example, since there are alternatives. But look at something so simple, so mundane like strpos.

If strpos doesn't find returns false. Every other language returns -1. And if you then use this value elsewhere, PHP will cast it to 0 for you. Boom, your program is broken, and you have to stare at the screen for hours, looking for the error.

"BuT yOU sHoUlD AlwAyS cHEcK tHe rETurN eRRor!"

And even if that's true, if we all must check the return value, does PHP force you to do so? Like checked exceptions in Java? Or all the Option & Result in Rust? throws, throws, throws... unwrap, unwrap, unwrap... (Many) people hate those features

PHP works against you. And that's why its bad.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

But if you code like a moron the code should still behave as expected. People who code like this deserve a special place in hell, next to languages that behave like that.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is not valid syntax as of 2020. PHP 8 fixed a lot of issue like this as well as a lot of function and variable type issues.

Also this was deprecated in PHP 7 (2015).

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They deprecated nested ternaries?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not nested but 'Unparenthesized'

Also per the error message here is it working:

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago

PHP Fatal error: Unparenthesized a ? b : c ? d : e is not supported. Use either (a ? b : c) ? d : e or a ? b : (c ? d : e)

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ever wondered about the array_fill function? It can be baffling. Try filling an array with a negative index:

array_fill(-5, 4, 'test');

Many languages would throw an error, but PHP? It’s perfectly fine with this and you get an array starting at index -5. It’s like PHP is the Wild West of array indexing!

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, many languages are perfectly ok with negative array indexes.

But all of those languages are either statically typed ones where you declare the boundings with the array, or php.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely, many languages do allow negative indices. The intriguing part about PHP, though, is that its ‘arrays’ are actually ordered maps (or hash tables) under the hood. This structure allows for a broader range of keys, like our negative integers or even strings. It’s a unique design choice that sets PHP apart and allows for some really interesting usage patterns. Not your everyday array, right?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I've been working with PHP for two years now (not by choice) but I still sometimes forget the weird behaviours these not-arrays cause. Recently I was pushing/popping entries in a queue and it fucked the indexing. I had programmed it like I would any other sane language and it wasn't until I was stepping through the bug I realised I had forgotten about this.

I hate PHP for so many more reasons. It baffles me why anyone would think it was a good idea to design it this way. Thankfully my current job involves actively burning it down and preparing for its replacement.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You think that's bad, just wait until you hear what C does

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Shot myself in the foot? No, no. I took out the whole leg."

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sure, it's counterintuitive, but so is not bracketing things in ternary operations.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

that makes so much fucking sense

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Hating on php is one of the reasons i left reddit. This is just people who don’t use php hating php for some reason. You can do dumb examples like this for any language. Low effort and funny for children.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Your feelings are valid. I wonder though, would you put up this level of defense for posts making fun of arbitrary parts of non PHP languages?

You are not your favorite language. And I find most criticisms of most languages to be very valid. I don't think the intent of OP is to insult all PHP programmers. It's okay to like a language that has problems. All languages do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I'd wager prevalence is part of their problem. Jokes get tired after a while, but that doesn't always mean they stop.

PHP, like any language, has its problems, but it seems to get poked at a lot more often. But making the same joke over and over has been a problem long before reddit was a thing.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Hey, I hate php AND javascript, and I've worked in both of them. :P

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I took this more as a light-hearted poke at a silly edge case. As someone who used to build static analysis software for various languages, including PHP. This gets a chuckle out of me as it takes me back to having to deal with these exact types of edge cases.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Finally got it...

$a == 1 ? "one" : ( ( $a == 2 ? "two" : $a == 3 ) ? "three" : "other" )

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

because "two" is a truthy value?

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Now do CGI.

Please. I worked with it for five years and I still don't understand it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To quote the guy who invented PHP:

"I don't know how to stop it, there was never any intent to write a programming language [...] I have absolutely no idea how to write a programming language, I just kept adding the next logical step on the way."

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Yes, PHP was originally meant to be a template language, like handlebars or thymeleaf, but kept on accumulating features along the way...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks I hate it.

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