Moved to Canada a year and a half ago. They made the process pretty smooth and easy all told. With that said, I haven't had a good time here and I regret moving. There's a lot of "grass is greener" rhetoric in the US right now, especially from the left. Be warned that a lot of that is misguided. I was underprepared for the host of unique issues that Canada itself has. Leaving the US will not fix all your political problems. It'll just reveal new ones that you aren't familiar with. But, after saying all of that, I certainly would never discourage anyone from trying to move. Seeing the world and opening your mind to new cultures are never bad things. For all my misery here, I have learned a lot about myself. Just make sure you go into it with open eyes. Have realistic expectations. Visit the places you want to move before you move to them.
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One thing I'd note about Canada in particular is that the current Liberal Party administration under Trudeau has gotten deeply, deeply unpopular - Conservatives have opened up a 10-point lead in opinion polling - and while their next election isn't until 2025, it's entirely possible that after that they end up with their right wing in charge.
(that being said, the current Conservative leader is both pro-abortion-rights and pro-gay-marriage, so maybe not that horrible a possibility compared to what we're dealing with in the US)
The Canadian Conservative party is not yet anywhere close to the republican party.
Pollievre called Trudeau a marxist the other day. It's the same empty rhetorical bullshit that Republicans in the US love to throw around. The CPC is headed on the same exact path that US Republicans were on a decade ago or so.
Not at this time, but they are using the same playbook (albeit a 15 year old copy)
Not for lack of trying.
Im interested to hear what new challenges you faced in Canada. I’ve heard their cost of living issues are a lot worse than the US, particularly with affordable housing. I’m not sure if that would be the main issue with moving there or not.
Housing has been one of the top issues for me. That mixed with comparitvely low incomes. I have a bachelors in a STEM field and I struggle to find places offering more than $60k/yr CAD. In US dollars that's like $40kish/yr. Whereas I'm looking at close to a million dollars CAD for a house in some parts of Ontario. It's absurd.
The other big thing has been the healthcare system. It was the big draw for me. But it's severely underfunded and bursting at the seams. My wife called 32 family doctor's offices the other day and couldn't find one that would take us as patients. ER waits are a nightmare and walk in clinics are crowded and overworked.
There are also issues with government corruption and poor candidate choices in the major parties. I went into that in another comment so I won't right here.
The best thing about Canada has been the lack of a police state and the lack of a gun culture.
Depends which province, but you will most likely have a corrupt, inept premier. Health care and education are neglected to a dangerous point. The federal government is a contest of who can be the biggest bozo and still get elected as prime minister.
The ideology in Canada is to pay as much money as possible for everything and try not to complain. Prices for goods and services are out of control. Housing is so unreasonably priced that there is no realistic way of affording to rent as an individual or to buy a house without inheritance.
Taxes are on everything and can be quite significant. Most people don't realize how much tax is included in the costs of most things we buy.
We are also bringing in so many new immigrants so there is a constant labour pool to churn through and wages only ever increase nominally.
If you're coming to Canada with a chunk of money, you'll probably be ok until it's taxed out of you. If you're hoping to move to Canada, get a job and rent or buy a place, then life will be tough.
I would disagree with a big part of this characterization. Specifically that prices are out of control beyond housing (which is completely fucked), but outside of that Canada has done better than most comparable countries when it comes to inflation over the last few years.
Taxes are not that crazy unless your only comparison is the US, which is a bad comparison.
I guess what I’m trying to do is find an area to settle in that ultimately has the goals of progress as their forefront policies. We’re over here “debating” wether children should have provided meals, at the place they are legally required to be at. The government is ran by children in suits, on both sides. I am just tired of being in the middle of it.
I hear you. I am hoping our issues are temporary up here. Honestly, our biggest issue is that housing is astronomically expensive and no one has tried to even fix it in earnest. Rising rates are having an impact. Houses are going up for sale and sitting there. At some point it will break and prices may drop.
What bummed you out? Just curious.
I answered most of this in other comments, but long story short:
Housing prices and cost of living are insane compared to incomes here. And I work in STEM. Think California COL and housing prices with a midwestern salary.
The healthcare system is underfunded and struggling. You can spend a day on the phone calling every family doctor in an area and not find a single one accepting new patients. We did exactly that. Called 32 offices and nothing. The ER has nightmare wait times and walk-in clinics are not able to provide the care people need because they have such a large volume to work through.
No major political figures are offering good solutions to these problems. In fact, they're using wedge issues from the US to stir up their respective bases instead of even looking inwards at Canada. Conservative leader, Pierre Pollievre, recently called Trudeau a marxist! I've heard comservatives ranting and raving about trans people instead of caring about doing anything productive. Meanwhile, Trudeau's admin was focused on a toothless gun ban when guns aren't a major problem here like they are in the US. The lack of a gun culture is actually one of my big positives here, so I don't know why Trudeau is focusing on things like that when there are major crises at hand here related to the costs of living.
There's a lot of corruption too. Trudeau is in the pocket of big businesses including the telecom triopoly (Rogers, Bell Canada, and Telus). Trudeau placed a former telecom big wig in charge of the CRTC, the Canadian equivalent of the US FCC. They have refused to allow MVNOs into Canada. Those are those third party cell companies like Mint Mobile that allow cheaper phone plans in the US. This refusal is despite Canada famously having overexpensive internet and cell phone plans due to the tripoloy. The insanity creeps into everything related to cell phones and the internet here. As an example, I am allowed only 3 voice mail messages in my inbox unless I pay more. I also have to pay long distance for calls to the US, something that isn't true with US telecoms for calls to Canada. As someone who works in telecom, I can tell you that these kinds of fees are bullshit and cooked up given how modern cell networks work. I have had to pay $50 for an accidental one hour call to the US.
Anyways, that's all not even to mention Trudeau's scandals. Namely the SNC-Lavalin Affair and the Aga Khan Affair.
And all of that is just the liberals. The conservatives are no better. Particularly in Ontario, the premier (governor equivalent) here, Doug Ford, has been inundated with scandals. These include his scheme to give away preserved lands through under-the-table deals, his decision to put his unqualified nephew into a ministerial position in government, and an attempt to use an exception in the Constitution to freeze people's rights to strike.
These scandals are all so frustrating, but what makes them unbearable is that there just isn't the political willpower here to scrutinize these politicians and bring them to justice. Both Doug Ford and Trudeau were reelected despite their scandals. Parties aren't offering good alternatives and the candidate selection process for parties in Canada is far less transparent than it is in the US, so political activism is that much harder.
Unless Canada gets its shit together soon, you're going to be hearing negative big item stories coming from here not too long from now. Right now the conservatives are winning federal approval polls and there looks to be a good chance that their leader, Pierre Pollievre, could be PM come 2025. As much as I am not a fan of Trudeau, Pollievre would be even worse. Canada really needs there to be a political movement that realigns the current toxic party dynamics. People here just seem so disengaged from politics that I don't foresee anything changing anytime soon.
Yeah I’d say maybe Australia could be an option too but there are caveats there as well. Like they are struggling possibly worse when it comes to housing vs salary. But that said their health system is in a way better shape as they’ve adopted two tier health system to have a private option. Yes, ok soo rich people get looked after. But think of it this way: they aren’t plugging up the spots for vulnerable people on need like they are in Canada making it impossible to get needed surgery in time. Canada is totally spineless when it comes to health care decisions. That’s the only selling point in Australia: the health care. The rife sexism makes it depressingly unbearable.
Healthcare is one of those things I really hope you guys improve. My bf (canadian) is worried that they are going to deliberately sabotage the Healthcare system in favor of private (read: shitty) Healthcare that swiftly becomes as bad or worse than the US system.
My own worries seem to be coming to fruition- that our own conservative parasitic ideas are slowly infecting many different countries, not just our own. Canada, Italy, Germany, the UK etc. Some have their own takes on it. Some may have even started it. But the American conservative party is great at spreading it, perhaps due to religious networks that operate like organized crime, or perhaps due to Murdoch's chokehold on world news. Either way, having the dumbest fucking people drag us back down is infuriating. I'd rather focus on problem optimization such as a high speed rail projects, anti corruption and anti monopoly efforts, and above all, climate restoration ASAP. That, and making sure Russia doesn't start WW3 at the worst possible moment in history to do so.
Thank you for your input. Canada was number one on the list since it’s close and “within grasp” so to speak. I know each area will have their own challenges and hurdles, but the hurdles I am wanting to avoid is the stripping of rights from other humans like myself and unadulterated corruption from county to federal. Is that something you have had to worry about since moving?
If you're worried about the stripping of rights from other humans and unadulterated corruption, then I would caution you about Canada.
Quick history lesson: Canada only created their constitution in the 80's after centuries of British rule, both direct and indirect. When creating their constitution they ran into some major issues with provinces needing to get on board, just like the drama that the US faced with their Articles of Confederation and getting the states to get on board. As a result, some exemptions to the constitution were put in place to strengthen provincial power and weaken federal power. Specifically relevant right now is something called the "Notwithstanding Clause". This clause allows provincial premiers (akin to governors in the US) to freeze certain rights in the "Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" (akin to the US Bill of Rights) at will until the next election. The current premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, has openly thrown this ability around to attempt to suppress strikes. That's right, to end strikes that he didn't like, he attempted to remove the literal right of the workers to strike. And this was a constitutionally enshrined power. So be wary, democratic backsliding is a problem everywhere and Canada is no safe haven from it.
Right now, Trudeau is exceedingly unpopular in Canada because housing prices and the cost of living is absolutely spiraling out of control. The conservative party is offering a horrible and corrupt man, Pollievre, as an alternative. He will only be worse for Canada. The third party, the NDP, has not been being taken seriously here (though they have my support). The NDP has been part of the currently formed government, which has caused them to take a hit to their approval. As it stands now, polls are favoring conservatives.
In terms of provincial politics, most of it is a shitshow here with the possible exception of British Columbia. Ontario has been especially terrible with our premier, Doug Ford, getting caught up in scandal after scandal. His administration was recently caught up in a corruption scandal of trying to use underhanded deals to sell off parts of the Greenbelt, a giant preserved belt of natural lands snaking throughout the province.
The only thing Canada has been noticeably better on for me has been the lack of guns (I don't fear for my life walking around my city at night) and the greatly reduced police state. Even the healthcare system that's so renowned in the US has been going through its own shitshow lately, with it being majorly defunded by conservative parties. It's been put through a major stress test and it's ready to snap. My wife called 32 family doctor's offices the other day and we couldn't get in to see even one of them. There are nightmare stories of 45 minute waits for ambulancea or several nights spent in the ER waiting to be seen. The walk in clinics are the best thing I've found, but those doctors always seem stressed out and very quick to get you in and out the door.
Find a job that will relocate you. Million times easier than the alternatives.
I did the “alternatives”. I survived. Would not recommend.
Like others said, moving through employment would be the most straightforward way. I actually moved TO the US instead of from, and I did so by asking my employer to relocate me. It was still tough, but because I was sponsored by my job, I had a lot of support (immigration lawyer and relocation costs paid for). The most ideal way is to get employed in the US by a company that has an office in your desired country. Then try to get moved there via internal transfer. The next option is apply for jobs in the desired country that are willing to sponsor you, but that's harder because not a lot of local companies are willing to spend. The first one also allows you to hit the ground running.
Thank you for your response!
Trudeau said a few years ago that Canada will welcome any Americans who can bring useful skills to the country. That isn't a high bar either. He's basically saying as long as you can contribute to society and not be a bum, you're welcome. You didn't specify where you'd like to go, but that's one option.
Hi! I'm sure you have a lot of feelings about the US and maybe you have a specific situation that's causing you troubles.
However, I'd recommend looking at other places in the country before looking at other places.
Moving is a huge expense, and if you lurk all the time on reddit or lemmy. You may start thinking that things are terrible, because you become emotionally invested in the outcome of a collective you can't control.
In terms of other countries, the UK is going through the aftermath of Brexit, Italy is about to elect a controversial figure, France has some questionable anti-encryption policies under it's belt. Another commenter mentioned Canadas downsides.
Looking at Asian countries like Japan and Korea, they are generally homogenous countries, and it takes much more work as a foreigner to make headway socially, with Japan moreso than Korea, to be fair. Compared to the USA, there is nary a country as diverse.
In the USA, there are many many places that can give you relative peace. Investing in local communities is much healthier than looking at huge national controversies, because usually local problems affect you more directly.
If you have the funds and resources and job security and drive to learn the language, I would say take a look at Switzerland. They're relatively stable, neutral, and it's a beautiful place there. I'd say it's still quite homogenous though.
This isn't meant to dissuade you from moving, but as someone who went through a period of depression due to the state of the country and it's affect on my life, and has now found reasons to support the US wholeheartedly despite it's problems, definitely look at quieter places in the USA, like some beach towns or mountainous towns in New Mexico.
I'm sorry OP I couldn't answer your questions directly since I am in a same boat, so I can only share my experience trying to get there... Maybe some of this would be useful
Where did you decide to move to, and what were the things you looked at when deciding to move there?
So the only immigration-friendly countries I can find are Canada, Australia, and Germany. Not a big list to begin with, but for US citizens there might be more options with other EU countries. Canada has... issues, someone else in the thread mentioned about their experiences. Australia apparently is closing its doors. Sweden used to be fine but I heard things went really South for them a few months ago.
And if you're a lurker on Reddit you probably know r/IWantOut? Country-specific wise I know r/Germany has a phenomenal wiki for their stuff, and Canada has r/immigrationcanada. Unfortunately a lot of good information is still on Reddit so yeah
Other countries... I don't think Asian countries do much immigration at all, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe some EU countries are fine depending on heritage and/or where you are from. I have no idea what's going on in Africa, if anyone knows something plz let me know.
Where can I start? How can I realistically make it happen?
For your privacy plz don't answer in this thread, but 1) how old are you, 2) what type of education do you have, and 3) what type of work do you do? Having a college education and an in-demand career goes a long way, although this is also country-dependent. And yeah under many circumstances your employer could help you with the process. Certain parts of Canada and Germany obviously have language requirements, but a lot of other countries accept English. I heard some places allow investment-based immigration, but 1) it's expensive AF and 2) not sure if countries that allow this plan are remotely desirable for US citizens...
Also side note: please DO NOT give up US citizenship unless you have a really good reason to / already have something in your bag. I'm not a citizen here, and most US citizens have no idea how excruciating it is to immigrate to this country
Thank you so much for your in-depth answer! I truly appreciate you and the time you took to reply! I am in a career path, so I should start there I’m assuming?
I moved from USA to Australia for university, then got permanent residency and later citizenship. I had a pathway because of (1) having completed my tertiary degree in Australia, and (2) having a close relative who was a citizen and could sponsor my application.
Without those things, my only viable option if I wanted to stay after uni would have been to go back to the USA to work for several years in my field of study, then apply for residency on the basis of being skilled in an in-demand industry. Australia maintains a list of in-demand skills, and if your field is on the list then that pathway is open to you - but you would also need to line up a job with an employer willing to sponsor your application ( I think this is mostly just about showing that you will have employment in the relevant field, not a financial burden on the employer, though I could be wrong about that).
My advice would be to make a short list of countries you would consider living in, and then look up their immigration websites and find out which ones you might have a pathway in to (each country is going to be different). If you have family with citizenship in any other countries, begin your search there.
What foreign languages do you speak? If you are a typical US citizen, your choice of destination countries is pretty limited. Especially if you want citizenship, you better be or quickly get fluent in the target countries native tongue.
I think everything is going to be fine. The US is not the best country to live in, yes. But there are worse places to go. I really have high hopes for the new generation coming in. The zoomers and millennials will eventually replace the old generation in terms of wielding power and the lot seems to be more into making the lives of their countrymen better.
Why not move to another state? Conditions where you are, are not necessarily the same everywhere. You can try researching for the best states to live in and see if any fits you in terms of your capacity and opportunities. At least you’ll still be in a culture that you are familiar with.
This is entirely dependent on who you are. My wife just had the highest court of the land tell her she has no medical privacy. Sure, right now it 's on state by state basis, but that can change. Every member of the supreme Court said under oath they wouldn't overturn precident and yet here we are. I have no worries that anything bad will happen to me due to legislation, but I am a white cis male. My wife isn't. My best friend is a POC. My inner circle is filled with nonbinary and poc. All these people are actually being affected by the "culture wars" in very real and tangible ways. Feeling like it's all okay right now must be coming from a very privileged and secluded position. Having held multiple people that I love dearly while they cry because their rights were stripped changes your perspective on a lot of things.
Things might not be fine. Throughout human history, on scales big and small, many people were not fine. Living in a crumbling empire can be a very ugly business.
Not from US, but why do you wanna move out of US?
Many of us are tired of roleplaying Germany 1930.
When the general populace is agreeing with, and supporting people who have more wealth than 90% of the rest of the US, I can’t help but feel like I am insane and am held hostage by my “government”. Enough is enough man. Life is too short to sit here and constantly fight for rights that were already fought for lifetimes ago. It’s disgusting.
Apt username, and I sympathize. I'm perpetually astounded at the ignorance of mankind.
Not from US, but why do you wanna move out of US?
I'm guessing it's politics. Our "religious conservatives" feel they can force women to have babies against their express desires while limiting birth control, sex education, and free school lunches.
It's a party dominated by rich old white men who can't rule over slaves anymore so they are going after all minorities and women.
Thank you. Do you also feel insane watching this shit? Enough is enough. I want out.
I recommend Norway.
Never been there :-) but they say the country has lots of money and their health system is very good.
We moved here from the US 3 years ago because my husband is considered a skilled worker and he got his visa that way. (Programmer) I was an RN in the US and was happy to cease doing that at the time of the move and don’t miss it one bit. However, I would say to anyone dreaming of a wonderful life in Norway - learn the language like, for real. It is so hard to find meaningful work here without being fluent, even though everyone under like 60yo speaks it very well. It’s required for basically every job, even those non-customer facing. But it is amazing here and I don’t miss the rat race capitalist consumerism society in the US at all. It’s safe and peaceful here.
Is this you Lucy from Seattle? Dude, you need to go on a retreat or something and take care of yourself if it is. I'm seriously saying this as someone who wants you to do well.
I'm not from the US but moved to Germany with an Italian passport and have had a great time so far.