this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 81 points 4 months ago (55 children)

Literally name who else, or shut the fuck up. Calls for Biden to drop out without an alternative are nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 4 months ago (10 children)

And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.

A list of people you'd like in the job isn't as relevant. I would've accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.

But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that's two people who keep saying they aren't interested.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The ones who aren't interested are usually more trustworthy?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You're not wrong (generally speaking...I'm not interested, I'm entirely untrustworthy, and no one who knows me wants me in that position), but they're not going to run so it's moot.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (7 children)

No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.

Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don't think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.

Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.

Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he's done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he's done and pitch a plan for a future America.

Right now I don't know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn't incredibly weak at the moment, but he's getting weaker.

At the end of the day I'm voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I'm not just voting "against Trump", I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn't even worth considering, it's fascism and I don't mean that hyperbolically.

If Biden can't beat Democrats, Biden can't beat Trump and that's a big fuckin concern to me.

Also, since you're looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That's debatable. It's going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that's even scarier).

(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (7 children)

To be clear, I'm planning to vote against trump unless somehow biden gets replaced with someone worse than trump (~0% chance that happens, but still)

that said, I don't know a single person who's happy with biden or excited that he's the candidate, and frankly I doubt the sanity of anyone excited about him as much as I doubt bidens sanity (whereas with people voting for trump the insanity is crystal clear). I don't know for sure who would be better, kamala might be the best bet, but being able to get through a debate without gibberish word salad sentences should be an obvious requirement

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

It should be, but the time and place for it was in the primaries, not when you're up against another word salad candidate with a die hard rock solid base.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I remember when RBG said the same thing. "Who would you rather see on the court other than me?" The answer is literally anyone else, but they ended up with that one rapist

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (21 children)

And you're not able to see the difference between a guaranteed nomination and a national election?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.

Bernie isn't running, and Biden isn't quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago

Until we know different, me too.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

To be fair "He is in this race and I support him" is like saying "He's one of the candidates of all time". It is a milquetoast, borderline sarcastic endorsement.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

It's what republicans do. Back your team. It's one of their best plays to win.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

No kidding, because she knows he's going to lose, but if he's unwilling to step down it's literally the only play she has at this point.

No one is going to come out and pretend Biden is some great candidate, because he's not. No amount of fake-hype is going to change his chances.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (24 children)

AOC is definitely a voice in politics I've come to respect. I can assume pretty confidently that her opinion is well founded and with the right intentions... if she thinks Biden is best option at this point, that tells me pretty conclusively that Biden is genuinely the best option at this point.

The debate shenanigans, the age, whatever: all of that is a fraction of a drop in the ocean compared to the shitstorm that would be Trump presidency. It doesn't matter if any of us like Biden. Do you want a literal fascist running the country? If no, vote Biden. If yes, abstain / vote for literally anyone else.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Take note how all the world politics experts that were yelling “gEnOciDe jOe”, are now somehow experts on cognitive function and one’s ability to run a political cabinet.

Also take note how seemingly overnight- they all shifted their concern to beating everyone over the head with reports on how Biden isn’t up for the job- despite the fact that we all know that news media is in the business to profit from dumbasses that eat this shit up.

This is an obvious movement to disrupt the election. VOTE LIKE LIVES DEPEND ON IT.

Their narrative is that they don’t want an old man incapable of making speeches, yet they’re fine to see for a rapist felon that spent the entire debate lying his ass off.

VOTE!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Biden doesn't make policy decisions standing at podium reading a teleprompter. He sits in meeting and has discussions with advisors and has follow up discussions and rewrites policies and discusses votes and rewrites again with further discussions. That's who I'm voting for and I think he is still able to do that.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

They know this already. They aren’t going to be educated on the matter. They’re not voting and working hard to convince others not to as well.

The best thing you can do is call this out when you see it. Ask them to answer how they’d prefer life under Trump’s thumb. Ask them who else could defeat Trump that is running right now. Ask them what are our other options. They’ll do their best to bullshit through responses, but at the end of the day-

They know we have none.

Ask them how they’re support a free Palestine, while being able to see Trump suggesting Israel “finish the job” but that is somehow not enough to vote against him.

These people cannot answer any of these questions in good faith. I’ve asked them, and tons of others have. They distract and counter with bad faith bullshit. Then they disappear- only to reappear elsewhere with the same bullshit.

You cannot reason with, or inform to educate them. They know the facts. And they’re here to urge you not to vote against Trump anyway.

What does that tell you?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

I think a lot of people are overthinking this. She's supporting Biden because as of today the battle is "over"

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/09/biden-house-democrats-withdraw-nominee

No use falling on swords anymore, apparently.

This is going to be awful though, as Biden is going to get demolished in another debate, and it'll look terrible if he refuses.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

First- I actually really like seeing AOC not being one of those "burn the house down" politicians as I knew her when she started. It seems like she's learned what it takes to get a large group of people to do one thing, and outrage politics does not do that. Frankly this is the restraint I would look for in a future presidential nominee.

Second- at a base level I'm very for Biden stepping down and giving us the opportunity to escape this hellhole of an election cycle. John Stewart put it pretty well to the DNC- "Do you understand the opportunity you have here? Do you have any idea how thirsty Americans are for any hint of inspiration or leadership, and a release from this choice of a megalomaniac and a suffocating gerontocracy?"

I always look for reasonable takes from opposing viewpoints, and I did find American Historian Allan Lichtman's argument for why Biden stepping down would not be the best idea. Here's the 6 minute video of his 13 keys to the Whitehouse which has predicted 9 of the past 10 elections.

TL;DW:

  1. Party mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.

  2. No primary contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.

  3. Incumbent seeking re-election: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president.

  4. No third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign.

  5. Strong short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.

  6. Strong long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.

  7. Major policy change: The incumbent administration affects major changes in national policy.

  8. No social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term.

  9. No scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.

  10. No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.

  11. Major foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.

  12. Charismatic incumbent: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.

  13. Uncharismatic challenger: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.

If 5 or fewer of these statements are False, then it is predicted that the incumbent will win. His take is that replacing Biden will do nothing but make point 2 & 3 turn from True statements to False statements, and increase the chances of Trump winning.

While crystal balls are everywhere and you could point to other political scientists who would say different, I was looking for a decent take on the counterpoint. I would also say that in political science, we like to have tools to help us make predictions so we can make actions. Just going on deep gut feeling won't cut it. Having a tool whose measurements don't always align with how you feel an outcome should be doesn't necessarily mean the tool is bad, it means it works independently from your biases. If you watch the video, I think he puts it well as the election is a thumbs up or thumbs down on the party more than it is the individual leader. It might be a helpful thought exercise to change the words "Trump" to "Republican" and "Biden" to "Democrat" when discussing the race as charisma and celebrity only goes so far in politics, but that's what we get caught up in the most.

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