Shit like this is why the kneeling protests in the states never bothered me. I’m proud to live in a country with freedom of expression. This kind of forced nationalism is a cancer
this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
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Don’t American school kids all have to like salute their flag and pledge themselves or some shit each morning?
It’s not mandatory but yeah. Some dumb fuck teachers and administrators have tried to make it mandatory but the courts never agree with them. It’s a weird Cold War relic I wish would just go away.
No one is keeping track of how enthusiastically they do it or writing official reports on it or encouraging more of it. It's the interest the govt takes in it that makes it weird(er).
Not that long ago in my public school the most I could get away without detention was standing facing the flag and not speaking -and that was only because my homeroom teacher was fairly lax and I was the only objector.
Punishments for not participating were real and I can't say the school wouldn't have come up with a more formalized patriotism monitoring if more students rejected it as a movement. 🤷♂️
There are a lot of places in the US where ideas from the 1800s are still prevalent, because they're so lacking in diversity that there is no one to point out the crimes.
Growing up in rural northern Michigan, I wasn't allowed to take the class our drama teacher taught about making costumes because I was a boy. That same drama department, for a production of West Side Story, got spray tans for all the kids playing Puerto Rican characters. They're still known as one of the best drama programs in the area.
Louisiana schools will soon all have the ten commandments posted too. They just passed that as law there.
There's no way that doesn't get struck down though, right?
It really should be a slam-dunk. The constitution isn't unclear about separation of state and religion. At all.
I'm guessing the state knows this, but figured they'd get credit with the Gilead crowd for even trying.
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It's something some schools do. It's not mandated by the government.
To add onto what other commenters said:
- It isn't legally mandated, only customary
- If it was mandatory, such a mandate would probably be illegal
- Plenty of teachers and school officials (but not most) will be pissed/will punish you if you don't do the pledge.
Lmao @ the Americans getting all uncomfortable trying to weasel out of this
Yeah bullshit it’s “not mandatory,” how can you have such a basic denial of reality?
Totally optional, that’s why every time some kid understands and abstains, the teachers and other students bully them mercilessly, give them detention, suspension, expulsion, and it makes national news whenever someone actually tries.
I bet joining the NSDAP was fucking optional too, don’t try to deny your christofascism that everyone just accepts because somehow it’s better when America does it
Idk, I didn't stand for the pledge and they didn't disappear me into a white van or exile me to Cuba 🤷
Maybe, and stop me if I'm going too far here, maybe you weren't aware it isn't forced. That's fine because now you've been handed a personal account of the opposite to be true, I'm sure you will reassess you stance 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not all states or schools. At least my siblings and I never had to. We lived in 3 states and went do dozens of schools between the 4 of us.
My kids don't say the pledge, they just stand there silently. I will Karen so fucking hard if they try to pull that shit.
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The Pledge of Allegiance has entered the chat.
I'm aware it isn't mandatory, but no one made that clear to me when I was a kid.
I’m aware it isn’t mandatory
Here is a breakdown of laws in 47 states that require reciting the Pledge of Allegiance
That's totally fucked up, and seems to be a violation of the first amendment, but IANAL
I believe so too. I've instructed my children to not recite the pledge (because atheism), and will absolutely make this my hill to die on. It's bad enough we've got money with that bullshit on it.
It's a stupid brainwashed idiot country and this shit drives me nuts.
The Pledge didn't originally contain the words Under God, that was inserted in the 60s
1954 for the pledge, 1956 for the money.
I live in New York, one of the most northern and blue states around, and have my entire life. In 7th grade I decided I didn't like saying the Pledge of Allegiance, the name alone sounded odd to me, like why are children pledging themselves to a country, when we can't even really understand what that means? So I stopped.
The school staff lost their minds.
Luckily my parents taught me to be firm in my beliefs, if I had truely thought about them and believed them. So I stuck to my choice, and my parents backed me up on it when they arrived at the school 45 minutes after the Pledge normally ended.
On a side note, I had read ahead in my Social Studies textbook that week, and learned about Nationalism in Nazi Germany, and it had sounded strangly familiar to me. Not long after the Pledge of Allegiance incident happened.
They just "encourage" you to do it and if you get bullied for remaining seated, the school will ignore the bullies even more than usual.
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I embarrassed the COO of a large organization once in front of approximately half of that organization's management. Managed to get away with it. So yes, I can say with some certainty that being able to stand up and freely express yourself is character building and, frankly, fucking awesome.
It’s also a strength. Places where you can’t criticize things is how you end up with a the emperor has no clothes situation where harm gets perpetuated just because there isn’t psychological safety for people to feel comfortable to speak out.
Shit like this is why the kneeling protests in the states never bothered me.
Nationalism is a fucking curse. It drives people insane. These guys don't love our country enough. Those guys love their country TOO MUCH. Its all so miserable and awful for everyone involved.
I’m proud to live in a country with freedom of expression.
Freedom to say anything that doesn't upset the rich and powerful. Freedom to speak anywhere that the police won't arrest you and the corporations can't ban you. Freedom to travel anywhere your credit card can afford to send you and the State Department hasn't banned you from going. Freedom to express yourself in any way that some Christian Fundamentalist doesn't think will unduly influence his little rugrats.
Unlimited, Unconditional, Unparalleled Freedom (*)
- Limits and Conditions still apply. Please consult your local boss or party apparatchik for further details.
Civil liberties are definitely something that have to be continuously fought for. You’re right that there are a lot of elements that would love to see many go away. Abortion is only the start.
Even having an anthem, being bullied into putting your hand over your heart, making children onesie allegiance, is all indoctrination to nationalism. It's horrible.
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Not singing loud enough - straight to jail.
Surprisingly, singing too loud? Also straight to jail.
We have the best national anthem, because of jail.
Real "please clap" energy
Ah, an excuse to attack an organisation that worships something other than Mighty Xi and the CCP.
Using children as the pawns too. Masterful.
Oh oh say, can you see!? By the dawn's early light 🕯️.....
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hong Kong has redoubled the emphasis on "patriotic" education since 2020 when China cracked down on the city's pro-democracy movement.
Officials said students' voices at the Hong Kong and Macau Lutheran Church Primary School were "soft and weak" and "should be strengthened".
At Yan Chai Hospital Lim Por Yen Secondary School, teachers were told to "help students develop the habit of singing the national anthem loudly in unison".
Many former opposition lawmakers and democracy campaigners have been jailed since 2020 under a controversial national security law that criminalised all forms of dissent.
More recently, it banned what has effectively been the city's unofficial anthem, a protest song called Glory to Hong Kong, because of its "seditious" possibilities.
In November last year, the bureau introduced a new subject which would require students as young as eight to start learning about the Beijing-enacted security law.
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