Dear Russian president, go fuck yourself - Ukraine
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2024
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"I'll walk away if you let me steal what I want." Yeah no. You'll be back tomorrow anyway.
Looks like he is getting more desperate. Nice.
I saw a different interpretation of the same news on Hexbear. The gist of it was as follows:
- Putin is being bold because he's winning and at this point can make such demands.
- He's even being generous, he's winning and gives Ukraine the opportunity to stop the deaths.
- Ukraine is not expected to accept these terms, because "the West" won't allow them.
So yeah...
- Russia already made peace offers in the past. So far they always did them when things weren't going well for them.
I wonder if all of the Russian propagandists on hexbear know each other, or if they believe anyone on hexbear is a real person.
I'm honestly so curious about it. Like, the way they argue sort of implicitly acknowledges that they aren't actually right about the facts, and are just trying to engage in tactics to "win" or claim victory instead of talking about what's really going on. They have to understand that, on some level, in order to be able to do it. And yet, there seem like there are way too many of them and the endeavor would be too pointless for it to all be just troll farms talking to each other every day about how awesome Russia and China are.
Like I really wish that I could push a button and turn off fog of war for a second and see what's actually going on there. Who are you? Who are the propagandists, in which groupings, and how many accounts do they run and which ones? What is everyone's motivation? Where do the people live? And so on.
...after the U.S. and Ukraine this week signed a 10-year security agreement that Russian officials, including Putin, denounced as “null and void.”
You can't declare something "null and void", invalid, in your legal system if it doesn't even exist in your legal system.
Like, you aren't a party to this. It's got nothing to do with you.
Unless the claim here is that it violates the US or the Ukrainian constitutions or something like that and they're talking about those systems, which I assume is not what's going on.
Ukraine calls Russia's election in occupied territories null and void
See, that is meaningful. Ukraine's saying that they don't recognize the authority of the elected people as representing the people there; they aren't going to deal with them or extend them authority. Whether Ukraine recognizes the people there has some impact on its actions.
But Russia isn't going to deal with the agreement or extend it authority. There isn't any question of them recognizing it or not recognizing it.
But Russia isn't going to deal with the agreement
I'm pretty sure Putin is gonna have to deal with it.
I declare Bankruptcy!
He's lying. Ukraine's only long term defence is NATO membership. And conceding territory worked so well with Crimea, eh.
No negotiations with terrorists pls.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on you.
Fool me three times? Leave me the fuck alone you annoying prick.
Dear president Putin, We see this as a very reasonable deal. Will you join president Zelenskyj for a ceremonial signing at Oude Waalsdorperweg 10 tomorrow?
This was addressed to Russians.
Or maybe it's a ploy to help factions friendly to Russia rise to power in countries that currently support Ukraine.
If an isolationist faction can pretend that Russia made a good faith bid to end the war, they can paint continued support of Ukraine as adventurism and a waste of money.
It doesn't have to be true. It just needs to be close enough to rhyme with the misgivings of folks that don't want to spend their tax dollars helping Ukraine fight.
This is not close at all though. This can convince no one that isn't already 100% on their side.
A depressing number of people are extremely low information voters. It's intended to sow confusion in their minds. If you can get them into a "they are all the same" mentality, then you can either get them to vote for you, or just not bother voting (and so not voting against you).
Basically, people who use Lemmy etc are not their target audience.
German Pro-Putin politicians have already jumped on this, loudly proclaiming they want peace. That does resonate with people, especially those who are afraid.
Because we can totally trust Zputin, right? Right? What a joke.
We have perfectly good truces from 1991 and 1994. if putin can't accept them he cannot be trusted.
Counter-offer: Zelensky shits in your cornflakes, and a NATO base in Odessa.
Yes Putin, that sounds very reasonable, but alternatively and I'm sure you will find this equally reasonable. Why don't you pull back to Moscow, and let Ukraine have their territory back, plus everything Russia has around the black sea?
Also Russia: Stop escalating by sending in old equipment, or we will nuke you!
I'm sure you can see where we come from, because it's the same place you are coming from. Malignant narcissistic insanity, with zero regard for human lives or reason or anything that rhymes with decency.
If.
Pinky promise?
[glug-glug-glug] Ees good deal /ssssss
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to “immediately” order a cease-fire in Ukraine and start negotiations if Kyiv began withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO.
Broader demands for peace that Putin listed included Ukraine’s recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, keeping the country’s nonnuclear status, restricting its military force and protecting the interests of the Russian-speaking population.
Putin’s remarks, made to a group of somber Foreign Ministry officials and some senior lawmakers, represented a rare occasion in which he clearly laid out his conditions for ending the war in Ukraine, but it didn’t include any new demands.
Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry called Putin’s plan “manipulative,” “absurd” and designed to “mislead the international community, undermine diplomatic efforts aimed at achieving a just peace, and split the unity of the world majority around the goals and principles of the U.N. Charter.”
Moscow withdrew from Kyiv in March 2022 and described it a goodwill gesture as peace talks between the two began, but the pullback took place amid fierce Ukrainian resistance that significantly slowed down Russia’s battlefield advances.
Putin also claimed that in that same month, he told a foreign official he wasn’t ruling out withdrawing forces from the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions and ceding occupied parts of them back to Ukraine, as long as Kyiv allowed Russia to have a “strong land connection” to Crimea.
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Moscow withdrew from Kyiv in March 2022 and described it a goodwill gesture
That's, uh, being quite generous. They rushed to Kyiv, couldn't take it, and had terrible supply lines. They had to retreat when Kyiv didn't fall in two days as they expected.
They "withdrew" from under a pile of Russian soldier corpses.
The song New Kings by Sleeping Wolf reminds me of Ukraine keep up the good fight and never give up - From US Citizen.