The insurance industry will love this.
this post was submitted on 23 May 2024
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Oh no, a more expensive subscription (for insurance) for a car that makes you already subscribe to be a beta tester of a technology that runs you into the side of a train!
Why would they love this? More claims means they have to pay out more. Even if they're assholes and don't pay out, they still have to process and fight claims which costs money.
They’ll raise rates on Teslas higher to offset that and make more money in the process.
If you have a Tesla and you're worried about this it's probably worth enabling pin to drive. Not sure about all the other brands that are impacted but hopefully they have a similar feature.
Couldn't a Model 3/Y owner also just disable the phonekey and use the NFC cards? NFC only broadcasts a few inches right? I would think that would be VERY hard for a malicious actor to capture with relay/replay attack.
Following that, is it possible to use the Phonekey only in NFC mode or is it always broadcasting on Bluetooth LE and NFC?
I just tried this a couple different ways:
- Removing permission for "nearby devices" - this unfortunately appears to block both Bluetooth and NFC permission
- Turning off the phone's Bluetooth - NFC still works while the Bluetooth radio is off, but you'd basically never be able to safely use Bluetooth anytime you aren't watching your car. Setting a PIN is still unfortunately the only way to go, and hope that a dedicated attacker doesn't also find a way to capture your PIN (e.g. camera zoomed in on your screen).
So we'd need Tesla to push a software change in the app with an option to turn off the Bluetooth LE signal, but leave the NFC on to continue to use Phonekey safely.
I guess the only safe alternative is using the NFC cards.
One of my coworkers carries a flipper zero around and opens up every single Tesla gas door we see. He hasn't tried it on the cybertruck yet, the ones I see are usually on the move.
Ah, good, then someone can charge the car for the owner...
My favorite so far has been spoofing amiibos on the switch for Zelda goodies
Enabling the PIN mitigates this issue entirely. Can't drive it away if you don't know the PIN, even if you have the physical key, fob, or phone.
Where I am from It is very common that people break in and only steal the loose valuables inside the car. Not the car itself. If you don't even have to crack a window i would imagine it is very enticing to do so and specialize in Teslas.. with that said, I can't magine Teslas are more prone to this and other brands. What makes Teslas a bigger target is that their fleet is large and use very similar components and tech. If you hack one, you can hack into alot of them.
Right, a rock can get in any car and your pin doesn’t help, so one of your best safeguards is to not leave anything visible in the car
Which is one of the perks of being a convertible owner. You keep the car clean of loose items, or the wind does it for you.
Still sucks ifyou can get in
The "Brick through a widow" bug has been an active exploit since the Model T.
Archive link plz
You can also just put the link into 12ft.io
I thought that didn't work anymore but maybe that's just the paywall removal.
Worked for me, I always use it on wired.com due to their paywall
As a Tesla owner I’m probably biased, but I do not fear these attacks at all. Thing is, because a Tesla is so connected to the mothership (and I definitely realise that’s both a good and a bad thing), chances of a thief actually being able to use or sell the vehicle are very slim. Tesla always knows where their cars are, and urning off GPS and LTE ruins 90% of the features in the car. I think thieves know this because I haven’t heard of any Tesla getting stolen and not being retrieved (but n=1).
Used Tesla battery is actually in demand though. Is the exploit is accessible enough, eventually thieves would target it to sell the battery in the used market for electric car conversion kits, solar power storage kits, etc.
Put me on the waiting list, I'd buy a battery that's been strategically re-located from some rich fucks car to my solar setup.
STEAL - Strategic Transfer of Equipment to Alternate Locations
A fat electrician enjoyer I see
You would have to chop up the whole car to get the battery out
It's not uncommon for cars to be stolen and stripped for parts, it gets rid of the risk of trackers.
urning off GPS and LTE ruins 90% of the features in the car.
The main purpose of a car is "driving", which you can do. Unless you cannot start a Tesla without LTE, which would be very stupid.
You can also always strip a car for parts. Teslas are not magically safe from that.
The kind of person who is going to disable that LTE connection wouldn't have bought a Tesla in the first place.
but I do not fear these attacks at all. chances of a thief actually being able to use or sell the vehicle are very slim.
Dreamer. Even thieves know what they are doing.
Cars are actually stolen. Teslas are actually stolen. That's no news.
The news is (once more) how Massa Elon was bragging about technology and didn't deliver it.
Teslas are at or very near the bottom of often stolen car lists, by a wide margin.
Now hear me out, do you think that might have something to do with their market share relative to ALL other cars on the road?
When a KIA gets stolen, the owner will likely get it back, although probably a lot more worse for wear.
Thieves using relay attacks are most likely part of, or connected to, professional auto theft groups e.g. chop shops, overseas car markets, etc.
No, because they normalize and have a relative metric.
The most stolen car is an SRT hellcat, which has a total production run well under Model 3 production in a single quarter.
So? It's not quite the point here, but it seems that even thieves got some taste.
I know! But Teslas are still connected to ‘Homebase’. I’m looking at it like Apple. Steal an iPhone? They’ll brick it remotely. This does scare thieves, one way or another. If there is a thief that is able to negate all the remote interception capabilities, sure… but the numbers of the people capable of that are low.
Tesla always knows where their cars are,
You're renting it?
urning off GPS and LTE ruins 90% of the features in the car.
can it still... ya know, move like a car does?
Maybe not if the car is bricked remotely - i don’t know because I didn’t steal one of course. From a tech perspective, it’s relatively easy.
What kind of tech do you need for this?
An appropriate SDR, or a prefab kit you can buy online.
Relay attacks on keyless systems are nothing new, plenty of documentation and articles you can use to read up on the specifics.
People usually use flipper zero (banned in Canada) to play with these kind of stuff. Not sure if this exploit can be implemented in flipper zero though.
It cannot. I know the FlipperZero and it can't do any relay stuff.
Can the Twitter LLM explain the process?