this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
69 points (98.6% liked)

Privacy

32159 readers
555 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
69
Coming to terms with no longer having privacy and control over my technology (lemmy.ca)
submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
82 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I miss the days of VHS and DVD shelfs in homes, for example. If you bought the tapes and had them in your home, no corporate entity could alter those tapes without your consent, monitor how many times you watch them, sell your data to whomever they please without your knowledge, roll out new mandatory conditions to a 'user agreement,' or remove them from your library if/when they like.

I noticed some dumb change in how Dictionary definitions are shown in the Spotlight (ie, overall search my computer function) in MacOS this week. I've turned off all auto-updates, and I didn't make that change or consent to it. But despite paying the full price all by myself for this machine, I clearly don't have 100% control over it. It seems very clearly to me that consumers having control and privacy over their Internet-connected devices is a bygone era.

After Blizzard, the video game company, replaced copies of Warcraft 3 that I and others had paid for in full and installed on our computers that we could play without connecting to the Internet with a lower-quality copy that prohibited offline play - I swore I'd never pay for a video game again*, and 3 years later I haven't backslid on that. I felt so angry, cheated, and robbed by that. (*Edit: my criticism and frustration is really more with larger developers/companies/creators - I appreciate and am happy to support smaller, more independent and libre ones.)

Many people probably won't be bothered by these things, but I am. I don't want to pay full price for something that I don't truly own. I miss the familiarity. I miss the reliability. I miss feeling like it's mine. Dependable. Trustworthy.

Picking my old guitar up again has never looked so appealing. I think I want to go back to investing more time, money, and energy into things that aren't connected to the internet

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (2 children)

A new linux user will be born soon

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

Jesus, you people are everywhere

(and I love it, lol)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

This is the way

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

Yes it's a pain ... but it's because your are considering a state compared to an ideal state, e.g feeling trapped with devices you don't trust versus running in an empty field. It's simplistic and it's not now versus then. Instead consider where you were, where you are now, and how it is a succession of decisions. Nobody forced you to buy a smartphone. Nobody forced you to install a chat app made by an ad company. Nobody forced you to have a free email.

Instead, for years, you made terrible decisions and now you are "waking up" to it and it sucks.

How do I know? Well, I did the same.

I even felt terrible about it and it felt impossible to change. I also discovered the concept of learned helplessness. How I was convinced that not only it was bad but I could do nothing about it.

Then I changed. I made a ProtonMail account (which I paid for, still am), moved my data from GMail. In fact I downloaded ALL my data from Google, and moved away from it, e.g from YouTube I installed on my own server PeerTube. I warned family, friends and colleagues I wasn't using WhatsApp anymore but they could reach me with email, SMS, phone, Signal, Telegram, Matrix, etc. I then deleted Instagram, WhatsApp, Facebook, etc.

I could go on but hopefully you get the idea : it sucked, I realized it sucks, I tried to change, it was hard requiring a lot of effort but, step by step, I removed a lot (not all!) of those terrible behaviors from my life.

TL;DR move away from learned helplessness by DOING things, taking a single step in the right direction makes a world of difference.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Like your points and generally agree, but companies deranging their products and adding post-hoc internet reliant licensing is one core message of OP. This has been forced on people on many platforms. Blizzard and WC3 was given as an example by OP. Microsoft is probably the most flagrant example as many people need to use windows for various software, and you need to rip the system apart to kill forced updates or shutdown invasive services.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Yes, which is why I bought Baldur's Gate 3 and not other games. It's not "just" because it's an amazing game, it's also because IMHO the way it has been produced respect its content creator but also the way it's been delivered, respect players.

So when I say be pragmatic I also don't mean to imply to accept any kind of behaviors from software publishers and rather when you can, do pick the good ones, obviously.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

PS: I'm also morally perfectly fine with cracking and pirating software trying limit your freedoms assuming you did properly pay for it once, even if it's illegal. I'm wary of enshitification overall.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Ofc. Always good to choose the source that treats the consumer well. FOSS alternatives are also becoming competitive for lots of things which is great to see.

But where you used to be able to purchase physical media it's practically impossible now. Even physical cases of games or audio-visual are usually just packaging for an access key to stream it. It sucks that we have to rely on market force through user-based action (e.g. Helldivers vs sony). These forces simply don't work against market caps like Microsoft or practically any commercial software (cad, sim, business management) or media service (streaming, music, etc...) where companies can leverage nigh infinite debt to overcome the user base action in favor of market growth.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

My university forced me to have a free email through microsoft. They also forced me to other privacy-invasive services and store my coursework on insecure servers. Sure, I could refuse to go to college and get a degree, but the reality is that if someone doesn't participate in higher education, or own a smartphone, or avoids any newer car that spies on you (at least in most of the US), being part of society and life in general is more difficult.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Indeed which is why I was honest saying "it was hard requiring a lot of effort but, step by step, I removed a lot (not all!) of those terrible behaviors from my life."

Namely I don't even aim for perfection, just pragmatism. I have to use Windows at work (sometimes) and I hate it. Still, I do my very best to compartmentalize, namely I do not install such work related tools on my personal or even professional computers or phones.

In your specific case I would argue that have the free email from Microsoft but not using it for anything else and deleting it as soon as it's not absolutely needed is an acceptable compromise. I would also do my best to understand what "leaks" via this email or how you use it. Anyway my overall point being to be pragmatic because perfection leads to inaction.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

PS: something fun I did a while ago, and still repeat whenever I can, is offline holiday. I still take a bunch of devices, e.g phone, RPi, SteamDeck, etc but I do NOT go online. Instead the RPi becomes a hotspot and I can code or enjoy content on any of my devices, but still within the privacy of my own network, without any notification. It's a very fun and empowering experience

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Pirated content is yours forever

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

So true. As others have remarked on here, entshittification really changes the calculus of "is piracy worth it?"

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

If some piece of media is unavailable without DRM/Internet connection - feel free to pirate it.

Often times, this is the only way to restore control over your media. And it's a sign that we're only able to tolerate it so far.

Then, your pirated media can be placed wherever you like - and taken offline if you want to.

Also, Linux is your best friend. No, seriously. No one proposes to insert any form of DRM in there, and everyone is free to fork unwanted changes, so it never has to come. You decide what you want.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Well said!

"Many people probably won't be bothered by these things, but I am."

You are not alone! There are still many knowledgeable people who understand what you mentioned.

Thank you for bringing up this topic!

Enjoy playing the guitar! 🙂

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Buy CD’s and DvDs. Check if a game has DRM before buying it (or just buy from GoG where DRM is banned). Run some flavor of Linux.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

But if you buy from GOG, make sure it doesn't have DRM, because GOG has been selling a few games that have DRM for a few years now

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Oof I haven’t heard of this. That’s like the whole selling point of GoG. What games have DRM?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1

This is a pretty maintained list, and even if I disagree with the inclusion of some things because all you're missing is cosmetics, it is pretty easy to argue that "complete game offline" should include all content of that game, so I'm not gonna start a fight about it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah I see the argument that any content behind an internet connection is DRM, but I think that stance is a bit extreme.

There are a handful of real problems on that list, but it’s like 3/20.

It’s important to maintain this list and call them out though. If I can’t expect GoG games to be DRM free I might as well just use Steam where plenty of games are still DRM free but other features of the platform are a bit better.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Thanks for sharing. I (wrongly) assumed all games were entirely 100% DRM free.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They're not gone, you just have to be more selective.

First, many of us have turned to piracy for this reason. I don't like piracy. I don't want to steal. But I will if they don't provide me with a legitimate and respectful purchase process.

I miss the days of VHS and DVD

You can still buy whatever you want on Blu-Ray.

I've turned off all auto-updates, and I didn't make that change or consent to it.

Bit of a double-edged sword there. Mac can make improvements and they can make things worse. The difference is often a matter of personal preference.

I have much bigger axes to grind with Apple, but I digress. Yes the overarching theme is "control" that Apple wants to maintain.

I clearly don't have 100% control over it.

Linux gives you all the control you could ever want.

replaced copies of Warcraft 3 that I and others had paid for in full and installed on our computers that we could play without connecting to the Internet

Pirate it. You have every right, far as I'm concerned.

I think I want to go back to investing more time, money, and energy into things that aren't connected to the internet

WHY DON'T YOU WANT PERSONALIZED ADVERTISEMENTS?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (19 children)

Piracy isn't stealing, that's just internalized corporate propaganda. No one should feel guilty about piracy, if anything be proud! Not only are you contributing to the preservation of media in an increasingly disposable age, but it also frees up your disposable income so you can actually donate it directly to independent content creators instead of sending it into the coffers of a faceless multinational.

load more comments (19 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (7 children)

Reject the temptations of short term convenience and adopt sustainable consumption.

Demand ownership of goods. Demand offline-first.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (4 children)

IMO the "ownership" thing is a red herring. It has its roots in a specifically American obsession with private property.

If everybody "demands ownership of goods", that means we share nothing. Hardly a model of "sustainable consumption". There are loads of examples of redundant private ownership of goods. My favorite stat: the average electric drill is used for 7 minutes in its entire life. All because every household in every building on every street must have its own one, instead of us finding a way to share them.

In the context of digital "goods", "ownership" really just means control. I wish we would use that word instead.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

“How many of you own a power drill?” Rachel Botsman, the author of the book The Rise Of Collaborative Consumption, asked the audience at TedxSydney in 2010. Predictably, nearly everyone raised his or her hand. “That power drill will be used around 12 to 15 minutes in its entire lifetime,” Botsman continued with mock exasperation. “It’s kind of ridiculous, isn’t it? Because what you need is the hole, not the drill.”

TIL

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Great points! Ownership, control, access, possession - these might apply differently to different things. I could see ownership being more relevant than other concepts in digital documentation of one's genetic information, for example. I think a public library model (ie, access) would work pretty satisfactorily for entertainment media. Our language might have lagged behind the privacy, consumer, and legal concerns of today. My knowledge certainly has, but that can be changed ;)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Ownership is control at the end of the day. If you can't control something you generally can't own something.

I want to own something and control it fully. I don't want backdoors.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I understand and relate to how you feel and I hope these changes feel positive to you and not forced. Please remember that these values do not have to be absolutist in their implementation and that there is a place for "hypocrisy". No human is perfect and it's okay to make concessions if you are struggling with a complete lifestyle transformation. Too often I see people start down this path of full on zealotry only to rubber-band weeks or months later because it was just too difficult for them to maintain that level of commitment to whatever their cause was. Instead of readjusting to find a better balance, they give up entirely and then feel really miserable about the experience because it seems like the things they valued in life were completely unattainable. This is all just a long way of saying take care of yourself on the journey.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Great advice, thank you!! What you said applies to me quite a bit

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

GOG game releases are nice for that feeling I guess or they were in the past maybe it enshittificated too

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Hey Choom, privacy, security and the ability to be in control is worth fighting for.

I hate how short term profits ruin good things for everyone but stakeholders. But there are independent developers, musicians, creator in generel or those who sell their stuff DRM free. Those actual humans are worth supporting and following.

Also having a hobby, like learning and or playing guitar, besides computing seems like a really good ide.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This same sentiment is what’s driven me to pirating all the movies and tv shows I own. I want total control over the things I’ve bought and paid for with my money. I also think this is crucial for the preservation of media.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I straight up refuse to legally purchase any media that is officially unavailable for DRM-free download.

Such behavior on the side of creators and publishers cannot be tolerated.

Pirate it. They deserved it with such policies.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I know how you feel, OP. Regarding data collection; right before I was about to buy a, "Robot Vacuum", I decided to check the security side of things. I learned that some of these vacuums have a camera, for navigation purposes supposedly, and that camera can save everything it captures and send it up to a server. So I've put that purchase on pause for now.. I need to further investigate what product I can purchase that does not have a built in camera. I can manage the connections it makes to the internet if it needs to of course through something like pi-hole.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Many people probably won’t be bothered by these things, but I am. I don’t want to pay full price for something that I don’t truly own. I miss the familiarity. I miss the reliability. I miss feeling like it’s mine. Dependable. Trustworthy.

Picking my old guitar up again has never looked so appealing. I think I want to go back to investing more time, money, and energy into things that aren’t connected to the internet

Upvoted.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

You can still buy movies on physical media.
You can use an OS that doesn't pull this shit.
And you can buy your games from GOG which has no DRM.
All your issues have pretty solutions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Feelling the same nere. I'm investing only in indie games nowadays (Indika and The Invincible lately on gog), but I ask to the pirate ship for AAA. Switching to Linux then provided a reliable, immutable environment. I work in the VFX industry and every software I use support Linux and runs incredibly smoothy.

load more comments
view more: next ›