Grounding planes is probably one of the most effective ways a person can cut emissions.
I'm absolutely for eliminating domestic flights within European countries. Let's get some good trains going instead. But traveling the skies is one of humanities greatest achievements and lets us explore other cultures in a way we otherwise never could. Let's not get rid of those. I don't want to be trapped here. Ban 30€ flights from Germany to Mallorca? Absolutely! Ban flights from Germany to APAC, Africa or the Americas? Please don't.
As a Mallorca resident, I'll take the 40 minute flight from Barcelona over the 6 hour boat trip thank you very much
I'm sorry, I was referring to Germans that head down to Mallorca for a weekend to get shitfaced. It doesn't make sense that a train ride from Hamburg to Munich costs 5 times as much as a flight from Hamburg to Mallorca.
Inner European flights are also important, until we have a dedicated highspeed train network that connects all of Europe's larger cities with each other.
To be clear, I am all pro trains. In Spain trains are also 3 to 5 times more expensive than the same trip on a plane which I find bizarre
This is peak entitlement
Literally, I am not entitled to fast and comfortable methods of transportation just for living on an island?
We can speak about reducing the frequency of flights, finding more efficient ways to fly, or faster boats. But planes still have a use case
Well, no you're not, if it was up to me. Same with flying from Munich to Berlin. You have the choice do it, but you shouldn't, because it's emitting like 200x the amount of CO2 and you know it. So take the less damaging option, for the sake of all of us and our children. How else are we supposed to drop emissions to zero in the next 25 years if everyone feels entitled to "fast and comfortable"?!
The least damaging option is to go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle, let's not be extremists.
Plus according to This web page , a 100km economy class plane ticket emits 1.2x the amount of co2
nah, this is one of those "shills running the activists" examples.
a. self-mangling is a good way to discourage sympathy or participation.
b. disrupting a bunch of random travelers, and actually endangering them because planes are in the air and need to land... so, not helpful in getting sympathy for the cause... just press coverage... which will be mostly negative.
c. there are a lot more direct ways to cause disruption, and a lot more sympathetic, less self-harming tactics to get press coverage.... and much much much more effective than delaying some flights at one airport for a few hours... this is peak stupidity at worse, but more likely, peak infiltration...
e. did i mention it even fucks up the activists physically!!! it's so fucking stupid and counter productive
a. self-mangling is a good way to discourage sympathy or participation b. disrupting a bunch of random travelers, and actually endangering them [...] not helpful in getting sympathy for the cause... just press coverage... which will be mostly negative. [...]
it's so fucking stupid and counter productive
The jury is still out on that. I've found research and surveys pointing in both directions. The positive and negative effects of such forms of protest are not sufficiently studied yet. Also historically, there are good examples for both.
Therefore, I wouldn't judge yet.
actually endangering them because planes are in the air and need to land
From what I know about that activist group, they always ensure safety. On street blockages, they make room for ambulances, they also inform emergency services.
I haven't looked it up for this case, but I can imagine, that they considered this.
I think, planes usually have enough fuel to land at another airport for such cases. There are emergency protocols for stuff like that anyway. So no one is really endagered here. Just inconvenienced.
c. there are a lot more direct ways to cause disruption, and a lot more sympathetic, less self-harming tactics to get press coverage
What do you have in mind?
e. did i mention it even fucks up the activists physically!!!
Not really though.
Despite that, every member knows the risk. They know what they are doing. They are not stupid and think about such protest actions thoroughly.
What do you have in mind?
i don’t need to present an alternative to glueing yourself to things….
the jury is not out on that… and i don’t really care about your opinions pretending like you’ve read research about how effective gluing yourself to things it….
it’s honestly pretty fucking evil of you to promote it.
nobody should hurt themselves to spread your political message.
i don’t need to present an alternative to glueing yourself to things….
I've had this kind of talk a lot of times. And when it actually comes to "those alternatives", which critics say activists should pursue instead, one common reaction is silence, as they are lacking ideas about those.
I'll leave you with that.
the jury is not out on that…
As far as I know, it is. If there are new studies, which I don't know of and which come to a clear conclusion, I'd be thankful if you could link them here.
and i don’t really care about your opinions pretending like you’ve read research about how effective gluing yourself to things it….
Well, that's your decision. If you don't believe in facts, then don't. But then it's not surprising if people call you out on that, if you don't provide proof for your position.
If you're interested – which you don't seem to be – I'll happily share the studies, historical examples, reports and surveys I've collected on that topic.
it’s honestly pretty fucking evil of you to promote it.
I didn't promote it. Maybe you can explain what gave you the impression?
nobody should hurt themselves to spread your political message.
I agree that nobody should hurt themselves. Although I can understand if people see themselves driven to such measures out of desperation and/or in order to prevent worse.
Regarding that activist group "Letzte Generation", I couldn't find any reports about injuries due to glueing.
Also I wonder where you get the "your political message" from as I didn't make any statement about my political stance on that.
one common reaction is silence, as they are lacking ideas about those.
you’re an idiot.
i’m not taking your bait.
go glue yourself to something then, show me how much you’re not just talking out of your ass.
shill.
That took a very uncivilised turn.
Why are you so angry?
No, did I make the impression?
I am just trying to understand you and have a civilised discussion with you.
We seem to have reached a point where our conversation is no longer productive. As I value respectful and constructive dialogue, continuing appears no longer beneficial. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I hope we can engage more positively in the future, so let me know if you feel interested at some point in the future. Take care.
how many times do i have to say it before you have gpt pretend to understand it?
no, sea lion, YOU have no intention to have a reasonable discussion
See above.
Until I see something which resembles a civilised and respectful response, showing an interest in continuing a discussion about the initial topic, I will no longer engage with you.
No it's not. If there was a right way to protest everyone would do it. But protest is always messy, some people will hate you, some will applaude you. So choose something and try it. Or sit on the couch and comment on the internet like you are not part of the collapse thats coming.
The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. Indifferent to the problem and indifferent to the solutions.
i’m talking about how one particular thing is the wrong way to protest, yet you’re pretending like i’m against all possible protest or something
These people ruin their (financial) lifes to protest for your future. Everything else failed, so they desperately try something more risky and you dare to call them fucking stupid.
the action is stupid, not the people, necessary.
and how does posting a wikipedia article to general topics like “ExxonMobil climate change denial” supposedly apply to gluing yourself to an airport runway?
a link that’s just a keyword search to pictures of Earth Day 1970???????
you’re pretending like you’re responding to me with some proof, but you’re just sea lioning.
why not go block an oil refinery, some shipping ports where oil is being loaded onto trucks? DDOS exxon’s backend online? throw feces an exxon ceo’s?
it’s a stupid fucking tactic and don’t you dare pretend like i’m talking about the concept of protesting climate change in general.
i’m talking about people like you tricking people like them into harming themselves.
and you’re awful.
People have done all the things you propose. Repeatedly. It maybe gets some minor local attention, and a police crackdown, but hasn't changed much of anything. That's why people have resorted to stuff like putting soup on the glass protecting artworks or gluing themselves to runways.
putting soup on glass protecting art gets a loooot more attention, and doesn’t harm anyone….
it’s crazy to lump that in.
I was trying to tell a VERY brief story of 50 years of protest that did not change anything, co2 just rises. So people try new stuff.
But I agree, this topic is too complex for a random internet fight not even in my native language. Had to look up sealioning, what are you talking about?! I am not awful, you are the one throwing around insults. Am I debating 17 year olds again?
After reading through several of their comments and having engaged in a discussion with them myself, I get the impression that they don't care about respectful and civilised discussions and I think it's possible they are trolling. As they also resort to throwing insults around, evading questions and not really showing interest in conducting a line of arguments, it's probably best to disengage.
you’re lying, disingenuous, and not trying to tell a story by posting a link to a search result for images of earth day….
but, pretend like you’re genuine:
trying new stuff is FUCKING GREAT.
try to glue yourself to things is FUCKING STUPID.
why harm yourself, when there’s CEO’s with houses and addresses you could….
there’s a lot of waaaay better tactics than hurting yourself to gain sympathy… it’s basically turning munchaousens syndrome into a form of protest….
or, what you are doing, is referred to as munchausen syndrome by proxy
in english, at least….
please fucking stop advocating for SELF-harm
What kind of glue did they use?
Something that happened or was uncovered recently anywhere in the world. It doesn't have to have global implications. Just has to be informative in some way.
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