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118

Martin Myers tried and failed to steal a cigarette. Why has he spent 18 years in prison for it? (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 91 points 6 months ago (2 children)

He was given an indeterminate sentence, known as imprisonment for public protection (IPP). This meant that while he could be released after 19 months and 27 days, he could also be jailed for up to 99 years. IPP was first used as a sentence in England and Wales in 2005, having been introduced by Labour in 2003 to detain in prison people who posed a significant risk of causing harm to the public. It was a controversial sentence. Critics said that jailing people for what they could do, rather than what they had done, contradicted the basic principle of justice: that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Yeah, no shit. Jesus Fucking Christ.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago

Holy shit.

So basically anyone who is deemed enough of a nuisance can be indefinitely locked up?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

I can almost understand the idea when applied to extremely dangerous individuals. There should absolutely be some kind of separate system for people who are too dangerous to be able to reintegrate into society.

A one size fits all justice system is a terrible way to run a society

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

In most cases, though, you can get those individuals on actual charges. People aren't usually violent completely out of the blue and a suspicion of future violence might come from prior acts of violence or securing materials for mass violence (like building explosive devices)...

The rationale for detaining someone for public safety is almost always coming from prior acts that we have laws for. We should force law enforcement to actually use those laws since they'll have a burden of proof to enact enforcement... the IPP loophole is awful because it leaves no legal recourse - there was no trial you can appeal or at least argue against.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That is called "life in prison without the chance for parole," at least in the US.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

It's called "Three strikes you're out" in some states. Commit three crimes of any severity and go away for a long time.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's definitely a fucked up sentence and he should have been released by now, but this headline is very misleading. He didn't get arrested for "stealing a cigarette", he got arrested for strong arm robbery. He was also a repeat offender who had previously been arrested for assault and theft. He for sure needed to go to jail, just not indefinitely

[+] [email protected] -17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes he punched for being a racist bigot.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Do racist bigots deserve a good punch in the nose? Sure they do! Can we just walk around punching everyone who makes us mad though? No. That would result in everyone getting punched twice a day at least

[+] [email protected] -16 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Yes, because it's an only way racist bigots learn.

Hitler is a prime example, he was imprisoned and went back to his party after his release.

We see the same thing with hate group leaders being arrested and going back to their movements after release.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

This guy didn’t go to jail for punching Hitler, he tried to mug some dude for cigarettes.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This logic works well until someone stumbles along with the opinion that QuantumSpecter is a racist bigot and a clenched fist.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Okay let's play the logic game

What's the statical information on racist/bigot reoffending?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

You completely ignored my point. We shouldn't build a society where anyone can assault strangers on the streets because they perceive they might hold socially regressive views. Because that society would be one effectively void of rule of law.

Anyone who disagrees or dislikes someone else could violently attack them then claim they said something offensive.

This system could even enable racism. For example an Asian man (who is prejudiced against Latinos) could bash and Latino he saw then claim they called him a slur to justify their racial violence. Should an KKK member be able to fatality batter and black man he hears says a slur?

If we are playing the logic game this facially fails. And not that the burden for disproving your hypothesis with statistics would fall on me when you've yet to back it with any yourself.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

No your point was that racist bigot should be prosecuted, so come on let's hear the stats on hate crime reoffending?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Do you really think Hitler wouldn't have started WW2 if someone had punched him in the face? Would that have actually changed anything?

You still keep ignoring the biggest point here, who dictates who is a racist and deserves punishment? If someone thinks that you're prejudiced against them then is it fine for that person to punch you in the face?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Reread my earlier comment. I take issue with public violence between members of a society as a means of social change.

This logic works well until someone stumbles along with the opinion that QuantumSpecter is a racist bigot and a clenched fist.

Yes he punched for being a racist bigot.

My point was that the fundamental error in that perspective was that it assumes that violence would be applied against exclusively the targeted group. And that while you typed your original comment you hadn't considered that because different people have different perspectives, someone might construe something you due as bigoted (even possibly at no fault of your own).

The problems in this idea pop up way before we get to address whether it'd even work.

And even if this was my point

No your point was that racist bigot should be prosecuted

Why do you take issue with that in the context now of hate crimes?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Cool, cool... So I can just punch anyone in the face I want as long as you think they're a bad person? I'll make sure to tell that to the police when I get arrested 🙄

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

He’s in prison for threatening to beat someone he was trying to rob.

Sounds a bit like the UKs version of a “3 strikes” law to allow longer sentences for habitual criminals.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Imprisonment for public protection was abolition in 2012 because it was being overused there are currently over 2500 people locked up whose sentences ended over 10 years ago.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Sounds like he needs to petition for resentencing.

When the headline is inaccurate, it undermines the whole article.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

He had previous convictions for dangerous driving, assault, theft and burglary.

Get tae fuck, the guy's an utter cunt and a burden on society

The police have their hands tied most of the time, of course they'll throw the book at someone however they can

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

David Blunkett says devising 99-year prison sentences is his ‘biggest regret