this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2024
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Selfhosted messenger/community software like discord (lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz)
submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
18 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hello, I would like to hear your opinions about a good selfhosted messenger like discord.

To list exactly what I mean by that is:

  • No need for federation ( only will be used by friends )
  • E2EE
  • Support for direct messages
  • Support for discord like server management by which I mean the ability to set rooms and topics for such rooms.

From what I know, this seems to be more similar to slack alternative's but wanted to hear opinions of others.

I have been thinking about either matrix, mattermost, rocket.chat or revolt chat.

I already have a XMPP server, but setting up encryption and client's has turned away quite a few people I would like to get onto this platform.

EDIT: As pointed by other people E2EE isn't needed for my usecase if no federation.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web
HTTPS HTTP over SSL
SSL Secure Sockets Layer, for transparent encryption
XMPP Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol ('Jabber') for open instant messaging

3 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 12 acronyms.

[Thread #711 for this sub, first seen 24th Apr 2024, 22:35] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Matrix is okay but very slow.

I would highly recommend Revolt, for sure.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Do you even need E2EE if it's a private server with no federation? It seems like transport encryption would be fine which almost everything has.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's a fine but, as long as the server was hosted at my personal devices, which it isn't but on a hetzner dedicated box. Which is still better than on shared pc's.

Don't really need it, it's just nice to have.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

If you're worried about unauthorized access to the physical machine, you could always just do disk-level encryption instead or store the app's data in something like a Veracrypt virtual disk. They'd still be able to access the data if they go through your OS/user, but wouldn't pick anything up by accessing the drive directly.

Nothing short of E2EE can truly stop someone from accessing your data if they have physical access to the server, but disk encryption would require a targeted attack to break, and no host is wasting their time targeting your meme server. I seriously doubt they'd access it even if you had no encryption at all, since if they get caught doing that they'd get in a heap of legal trouble and lose a ton of business.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It still has to transit networks, and I'm assuming they're using the internet.

Anymore, all comms (even local), should be encrypted.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

That is what transport encryption does.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

OTOH, may not fit all your criteria:

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you run things on your own server and have no federation there is no point in e2ee.

If you already have an XMPP server, maybe add an easy to use Movim web-client to it. People that are used to Discord seem to have little trouble adapting to it, but it isn't a full feature equivalent to Discord obviously.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you run things on your own server and have no federation there is no point in e2ee.

Just because they run the server doesn't mean the users want them to be able to access the messages.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Then just don't?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Whether I do or don't is irrelevant, it's the fact I can read them that's the problem.

Nobody will use your selfhosted services if they know you're able to snoop. People tend to actually be very privacy conscious. Ironically they keep using online services that shit on their privacy, but that's mostly because they don't realize how bad it is. Also it's super ironic that this realization only comes around when they're exposed to private selfhosted services.

I get these kind of questions from friends and family all the time. I propose to backup their files on my server and enter them into the incremental backup rotation, one of the first things they ask is "so you'll be able to see my files". I propose to set up Immich so photos can be automatically backed up and they get face recognition and so on, they refuse because I would see all their photos. I offer them to use something like video or music streaming, they ask if I'll be able to see whenever they go online and listen/watch something and when the answer is yes they say no thanks.

And to be honest I don't want to know those things either. And for some things it's possible to avoid it, like for the files I can set up an encrypted backup. But I can't help having access to Immich photos or see when they're listening to music.

Everybody needs their privacy and as a selfhoster you need to be very mindful of that.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Uhm, honestly that's a you issue if your own friends and family don't trust you even that much.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You keep missing the point. When you have access to everything you can inadvertently be exposed to something you don't need to see. I don't want to get a notification from the backup system saying "folder /syncthing/dad/Furry Porn changed while we were reading it" and then have to go gouge my eyes out. This is the kind of thing that can happen when you ask someone to entrust you with ALL their most private stuff. Everybody has secrets and stuff they need to stay private.

So instead of asking "am I trustworthy" you need to ask "do I REALLY want to fucking risk stumbling over super private stuff"? Because I can guarantee you will sooner or later.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago

Sorry, but you are making excuses and you know full well that other online services are not any more secure, but less so. If something like your totally made up example would actually happen then you would need to have a stern talk with your dad about not uploading stuff like that to a remote computer, period.

E2EE is a band aid at best and mostly used to justify using commercial services that are inherently untrustworthy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Revolt is self-hostable. It isn't E2EE but if you're controlling the users anyways transport encryption should be enough since you have control over the data anyway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I tried to set this up recently but failed. I wish there was a up to date noob friendly guide for this. IIRC some containers, mongodb was one of them, didn't go healthy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I never actually tried myself, but it seems like the documentation certainly could be improved. I saw that they provide a Docker compose, so perhaps that could be of help if you didn't use that the last time around. They are currently in the process of cleaning up the projects to make things more maintainable and easier to get an overview, so let's hope things might improve a bit. I think for me personally, this certainly seems like the most promising Discord replacement because it feels like a set and get solution for non-techy people trying to switch instead of relearning everything like with Matrix.