this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (6 children)

So why have womens sports then why not just let everyone compete in one division? That way we can avoid all hostility towards trans athletes.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (17 children)

Many sports have two divisions: Open and Womens. This even includes ones like Chess and various e-sports. The NFL, NBA, and MLB all allow women, or at least have no rule banning them (In the former two cases, ever, in the latter, any more, the 1952 ban was rescinded in the 90's.)

So to answer your question: Everyone can already compete in one division.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Then you'd have people cry because most men would dominate most of those sports, leaving most women in the dust and with no chance of winning them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Ding ding ding

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

So why have womens sports then why not just let everyone compete in one division?

Because that would be the end of female athletes.

Same reason weight classes exist in some sports. Put a featherweight against a heavyweight of similar fitness and experience and it would be terribly boring and no one would care.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Sport is such an unfair world, trying to find equality and justice in it is futile. We don't want kids taking growth hormones to boost their chances of making it into the NBA. But that also means we crush the dream of plenty of people. Athletes with asthma can't use their inhaler under certain circumstances. A few years ago an UFC fighter with Asthma got his win overturned because he used an inhaler inbetween rounds.

There was a huge discussion about allowing prosthetics in "regular" competition. Turned out at the time that proshetics weren't advanced enough to give an advantage. But I think we all know that this is only a matter of time. And eventually a hard ruling needs to be made that dictates in which direction sport goes.

Banning athletes who take as many hormones, hormone blockers, and other mediaction as transwomen usually take is 100% something that needs to happen. Especially considering that in certain leagues the usage of these substances is the only reason that transwomen are allowed to compete. That feels against the spirit of sport and TUEs. But untill more data exist, I doubt a useful ruling can be made.

What I don't like about the whole discussion is going for the "They aren't real women" argument. That feels degrading and hurtful for everyone involved. I don't want cis or transwomen to have to undergo inspections to determine their gender.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

But the "hormones" you generically refer to, aka fucking estrogen lol, and hormone blockers Trans women take aren't an advantage. Ask any trans women, they make you weaker....

Like why point out trans women when trans MEN are taking a hormone that actually promotes strength and athleticism? TERF vibes

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

In general, and I'm sure some people here will be incensed at the suggestion, people do not give a shit about women's sports and the only time many of them do is when they find out a "man" is competing in them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Women care about women's sports.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

A lot of them don't. Just like a lot of women are against subsidized pre and post-natal care. Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you care about women's issues.

And, based on what I've seen, the vast majority of complaints about this come from men anyway.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

First of all fuck sportball, we have real existential issues to deal with. Secondly, they interviewed 4 transfolk who are having sportball issues? So basically all of them? I cant think of a more contrived moral panic manufactured by the right and am ashamed the left would bite on this hook. Im all for discussing fascists showing up to drag shows armed to the teeth, the scapegoating and dehumanization of trans folk, anti trans law being codified, the lynchings of trans folk that have actually happened, but this sportball ragebait shit is designed for low information cousin fuckers to distract from actual issues.

Protip; search by controversial to see this comment

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Agreed 100%. Sports are entertainment. This is a distraction. Get people upset about trans women in sports and they might get less upset about things like healthcare costs. Or at least not upset enough to stop voting for bigots.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree with you, necessarily. It's an incredibly grey issue and one of the few issues that the left shouldn't be as absolutist about and have a conversation. And beyond that, it's so low on the list of priorities. Even for trans people themselves I can't imagine this is high on the list.

But your Protip makes you look like a tool. Why preemptively try to act like you're some kind of martyr?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Why did I say sort by controversial? "Its an incredibly grey issue" "An issue the left shouldnt be absolutist about" "Low on the list of priorities" "I cant imagine this is high on the list"

Id say its controversial for these reasons.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"Sort by controversial" is just complaining about being hidden due to downvotes. It also doesn't make sense for multiple reasons. They've already seen your comment, you're upvoted, you're not necessarily going to get downvotes due to a nuanced conversation, Lemmy isn't usually busy enough to be buried in comments, etc.

You can say it's a controversial subject without victimizing yourself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

This article isn't a moral panic. Did anyone even look at it? It's talking about four athletes and their experiences, some of them positive.

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