First-Time Gun Owner Shopping List : guns

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

A cleaning set. For a handgun, some handgun sized disposable barrel swabs, some oil (I prefer Hoppes 9 for general purpose), rags, and some q-tips are usually enough. For some guns like Glocks, a little bit of metal polish applied to the trigger mechanism can make them a bit smoother overall for not much investment.

A roll of painter's tape is good to have for a range bag to help plug up targets while you're shooting to make the targets usable a bit longer. Sharpies also work, I just prefer tape. It also works to put up targets if the range's staple gun or target clips aren;t working.

Targets. You can go from buying a fancy set of splatter targets to just printing off some on normal paper.

For handguns I have not really ever used speed loaders for the magazines. I just haven't felt hindered by putting rounds in manually, but if you want a little help it's out there.

You may want some way to adjust the sights. This can be a set of small precision screwdrivers, or for factory Glock sights- a tap and mallet. Eventually with the optics you'll probably want allen keys or star keys to make adjustments.

The investment that is you should learn both good shooting and responsible habits. Ranges tend to have introduction to shooting either as group classes or one on one, and getting those basics down may seem boring but fundamentals are important for everything else. I'd even soft suggest looking at a CCW course, even though you don't intend to carry, since the CCW courses do focus more on crash courses of legal and storage responsibilities. It can't be bad to have those things in your head.

After that point, regular practice is just something to keep the rust off your abilities and familiarity with handling. I have a habit of sharpie marking targets with dates/distances/drills/gun used and taking photos so that I can record long term. It helps identify certain trends where I need to work on them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Just promoting your post, because you caught almost everything.

A cleaning set

So much this. The type depends a lot on what OP is planning to buy, but it sounds like a pistol (as opposed to a revolver). The right size for the caliber - new people may not realize the brush size matters; 100% agree on the Hopes 9. I also like to have a set of those gun toothbrushes, one that includes polymer and steel heads - they're nice for getting into crevices. Also, Break-Free, and some type of light lubrication.

Good call on the painter's tape. I also started collecting the sides of larger shipping boxes (Amazon, what have you) for free target backing. Splatter targets are worth the $$ IMO, but I'm getting older and my eyesight isn't what it used to be.

Again, I agree with you about skipping speed loaders. Unless OP is planning on running a revolver, which it doesn't sound like they are, there's no situation where they'll be loading mags in a home defense scenario.

I'm low key off drills. I haven't carried in years, and I don't think drills help much in home defense. Target practice, yes. But practicing quick draw for in your house?

One suggestion I'd add for OP is that, if they're really going for home defense, skip the handgun and get a shotgun. Unless OP is going to be constantly carrying in the home, or they plan on buying a bunch of guns and stashing them around the house, they're going to have to run for their gun, in which case a shotgun is no worse for access, and is a far better home defense weapon.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I’m low key off drills. I haven’t carried in years, and I don’t think drills help much in home defense. Target practice, yes. But practicing quick draw for in your house?

Drills are more than just draw from holster. For example, point shooting is something that gets much better with practice time put in. Beyond that, while perfectly aligning sights at speed and being able to track onto targets or moving targets may not matter in a sub-5ft home defense range scenario, it isn't detrimental. Having more skill and familiarity than is actually needed can only be a positive in that scenario.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

More time and experience is always better; I just think there are diminishing returns for running drills for home defense. If that's how you want to spend your spare time, sure. I just don't think it's going to measurably affect any outcomes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This is a late tangent, but:

I also like to have a set of those gun toothbrushes, one that includes polymer and steel heads - they’re nice for getting into crevices.

Steel? Does that not cause issues? Every metal I stick inside a gun to clean it is brass because I have always been told and do worry about causing undue wear and scratching on surfaces.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The sets I get have polymer, steel, and copper(? Brass?) heads. Break free and polymer works most of the time, but some carbon is stubborn. Yes, I don't use the steel ones much, but I use the copper ones all the time. What are your bore brushes made of?

TBF, some of the chemical products these days, I've been tempted more than once to just hose the barrel down with lead and carbon dissolvers, rinse the whole thing off with break free, give it a wipe and call it good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

All the metal bits like bore brushes, barrel snake brush bits, and metal picks are all brass for me. I would rather leave a microscopic speck of carbon that dig up the whole area with steel dental picks.

For cleaning the barrel just a bit of oil and a few runs with a bore snake are usually enough. The only time I go further is the special ritual when shooting Soviet surplus ammunition, where boiling water is first run through and then lots of barrel snaking to get everything dry.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A book covering your local gun laws. :)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This should be higher. Lawful self defense in most of the US requires innocence, imminence, reasonableness, proportionality, and sometimes avoidance. If your state has no castle doctrine, this can mean if someone is only stealing things from you, there's nothing you can do to them but yell.

There's nothing you can say to the police that can't also be said by your lawyer. There are tons of things that if you say them, you can get yourself prosecuted even with no crime. Tell them (don't ask, don't hint) that you want your lawyer, and you are invoking your right to silence, then be silent.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do not talk to the cops. "Anything you say can AND WILL be used AGAINST YOU."

Long version, best 45 minutes you can spend today:

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

Short version? Same message in 1 minute:

https://youtu.be/6EI_RYIEtrg

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Good call. I plan to show both videos to my kids when they're old enough.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Classes, practice, cleaning kit + associated fluids and lubricants, and eye protection.

Consider getting some Howard Leight Impact Sport earmuffs. I like to throw some surefire ep3s with the plugs open under them and I can talk easily with others.

A range bag is really nice to have, better to go oversize to your needs because you will probably need a larger one down the road. Speed loaders are nice to have but not essential if you don't have trouble loading mags.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Of course, I didn't think to take a class; was relying on the YouTube route, but I think it's a better investment to check one out.
Good idea on throwing ear plugs under the ear muffs, I'm gonna do my research on that combo.
Also, Thanks for the note on getting an oversized range bag too. Most likely going to stock up later down the line.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

The ability to wear earplugs and muffs in together is a good option not so much for your own handgun, but for when something next to you is testing out their short barreled .308 with an obnoxious muzzle device.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

An instructor is leagues better than YouTube.

Doubling up is always best unless you never want to have a moment of silence ever again. Outdoors you can get away with one or the other, but you can't fix hearing damage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

There is good information on YouTube but if you have any good trainers near by I'd recommend that over YouTube. But I'd also do that with the caution that you should vet whomever you train with, read reviews if you can find any.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

After the basics like a safe and some ear protection with sound amplification, I’d get some dummy rounds to practice loading and unloading the gun so you’re really comfortable with it and don’t need to use real bullets, which can be nerve-racking at first. You can also use the dummy rounds more safely at home, whereas, when you’re new, you don’t usually want to be loading or unloading real bullets unless you’re at the range. Others also use dummy rounds at the range mixed in with real rounds to try to figure out what they’re doing wrong with grip and trigger pull.

Also, I’d suggest getting a dry fire trainer, basically a laser bullet and target. This will help you learn how to aim and pull the trigger without needing to waste bullets. You can also use this at home. They sell these on Amazon pretty cheap. They are awesome for getting comfortable with the iron sights and understanding how your trigger pull is fucking up your shot.

Finally, once you’re good with the iron sights, see if you want to modify the gun in any way like swapping to night sights, putting on a red dot, and attaching a light.

As always, safety first. Treat every gun as if it is loaded. Check and clear it every time you use it. Keep the damn thing locked up whenever you’re not using it. You want to build some comfort with it, but never get too comfortable.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Work out a detailed defense plan. If you're woken up by someone kicking in your door in the middle of the night you are not going to make good decisions. So make them in advance. Figure out where you and your family need to go and what cover is available. Work out ways to minimize how much you have to expose yourself. (Don't go looking for an intruder.) Think about whether you want to turn on house lights or use something else. One way or another you never want to shoot at a target you have not positively identified.

It's also important to think about what you are willing to do in various situations. Are you prepared to kill someone to defend yourself and your family? The answer is almost certainly yes, but give it some thought in advance. Are you willing to kill someone to protect your property? Does any intrusion warrant lethal force or only if they approach you or your family? The questions are simple and the answers may be obvious to you, but make them in advance when you are not under threat and can take the time to think them through.

Talk through your plans and decisions with anyone else in the house. Everyone should know what they are supposed to do.

Stay safe.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Lots of great posts in here! I'll add bit:

Hard disagree with the poster about red dots and lights. Red dots are practically aim bots. Got one on my AR and one on a shotgun. They're so easy to get on target it's like cheating, actually takes some fun out of shooting. :) But if violence comes to your home, there's no such thing as cheating. Unfortunately, a good one that won't fall apart costs a fair bit. Holosun sounds like a great product, never had one. Saw an interview with the owner of this company, and he was refreshingly honest! No, they're not the best of the best, not for Navy SEALS, but they do what you and I want. That's my next purchase.

I hike in some wild woods at night and doing a little practice on drawing and getting on target sold me on weapon lights. I've got a .45 with tritium (radioactive, permanently glowing) sights. And still, that just doesn't hold a candle (heh) to a flashlight. Bonus! The light is a weapon in itself. Going from a dark room to getting 800-1,000 lumens in the face is more than a little disorienting. Yes, it'll give up your position, and yes, it'll blow your night vision, but still... You're not going to pull the trigger on anything you haven't 100% identified, right? Get a light.

BTW, dummy rounds are called "snap caps". That'll be easier to search for. Another thing a poster called for is called a laser "bore sight".

If you're interested in the education aspect, give Paul Harrell a shot. He's universally respected and gives great talks, see for yourself. Paul's close to the end of his journey, so the newer videos are his brother. Seems expert, but it's not nearly the same.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Safe and locks. I don't like guns, but the friend who does has both of these in a house full of children. If they can get to them, you're doing it wrong.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Okay so I am going to tell you something unpopular but true. A gun will not make you safer. If you truly just want home defence options there are other better things than a gun. Home defense is a close quarters encounter a gun is a range weapon. Unless you are very well trained, a gun will not be your best option and seriously well trained not just Gravy SEAL trained.

If you still decide to get a home defense gun. You don't need a lot of shit hanging off it or something fancy. Truly the best defense hand gun is a 4in DAO 38 special. But they are just not cool enough so people always have to get something fancy. A revolver is more reliable, needs less cleaning and can cycle a misfire. Getting in DAO will mean every trigger pull has the same feel every time.

Things you don't need is really anything hanging off your gun. Red dots, lights, lasers, ect are pretty useless. You're better off spending time and money learning how to point shoot. I get it is fun to accessorize. Everyone wants Barbie's Dream House. If that is what you want for it, have fun. But if you truly want a home defense gun. Do it the right way not the Gravy SEAL way.

Also please know that in home defense you are much more likely to shoot a loved one or be killed with your own gun then to successfully defend your home. Learning unarmed combat is safer and likely to serve you better.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If I'm being real, I just want a reason to shoot and go to the range 😂 Although you're right on some points, having a gun doesn't necessarily make you feel safer, its a liability if anything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

That is great man, no reason not to. The more people need to spend more time at the range, myself included. Just remember it is very important to have realistic expectations. I find a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of gun ownership. Which is a problem created by the industry, there is much better money to be made selling unnecessary farkles then there is providing realistic expectations.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Home defense is a close quarters encounter a gun is a range weapon

They are planning on using a pistol for home defense, not a scoped rifle. Most defensive encounters with a pistol are likely not going to be at great distances to begin with, and even if someone was expertly trained in unarmed combat if the option exists to not have to get close that would still be preferable. It's also harder to retreat while grappling with an intruder than being able to engage from across a room.

Truly the best defense hand gun is a 4in DAO 38 special

Unless the shooter isn't compatible with that platform [recoil management? weight? size?] - humans come in many shapes and have differing needs
Unless there's the possibility of multiple attackers

A revolver is more reliable, needs less cleaning

For a self/home defense gun you shouldn't slack on cleaning regardless of its type. But also the vast majority of modern striker fired pistols are exceptionally reliable and generally don't need any/excessive cleaning.

Red dots, lights, lasers, ect are pretty useless.

If you train to use them under pressure and they demonstrably help with getting on target they aren't useless. A light in particular can be very helpful if you might have trouble identifying your target (see also: don't shoot your loved ones). It's certainly easy to overdo it, and ideally you don't want to rely on additional accessories, but still far from "useless".

much more likely to shoot a loved one

While it's possible that's true (a lot of gun use stats can be tricky to accurately measure), do you even know if this poster lives with or even around other people?

Learning unarmed combat is safer and likely to serve you better.

No reason not to learn unarmed combat if you're able and willing - it can only help. I don't think it's always going to be safer in every life or death situation though. Suppose a person lives alone in an area with a cartel known for doing home invasions with a group - in that scenario they're probably going to be killed if using a pistol (or rifle, or shotgun etc.) but they will definitely be killed with just their fists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Home defense is a close quarters encounter a gun is a range weapon.

Ranged self defense weapons are decidedly better as they don't require you to be in range of a threat to utilize them. Be that a firearm or even just pepper spray.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Are you familiar with the Tueller Drill? It is also called the 21 foot rule. Basically it is the distance that a melee weapon is effective. Look there are a lot of variables when it becomes real world, but it has been shown empirically that to draw a fire a gun successfully requires the attacker to be greater than 20 feet away. Btw 20" has the attacker almost touching the gun as you fire. When talking purely about home defense it seems very likely that any encounter will lead to a grapel. Personally I won't want a gun in the mix at that point.

And for the what if you are already drawn and ready to fire argument. That seems like an edge case to me. The home is a "safe place" for our brain. It is where we relax and let our guard down not where we expected to be attacked.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Yes I am. I don't think the circumstances behind that are directly applicable as it is focused on drawing from a holster (rather than a low/high ready) which isn't applicable in most home defense scenarios.

In a hypothetical where someone has attempted a break in on my residence while I'm inside I've probably realized before they know where I am.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The Tueller principle states that they can get you within 21ft...if you don't move. It is taught to military and police officers not to say "so you may as well not even have these guns we're giving you," rather to say "move laterally as you draw if possible." Often accompanied by phrases like "move off 'the X'" ("the X" referring to the spot you're standing while the encounter/your draw starts.)

Furthermore even then I'd rather be able to shoot from a thumb pectoral index and use my left as a leveraging arm if need be than be in an entangled fight over whatever contact weapon he brought, and that's assuming I'm lucky enough that the violent intruder doesn't have a gun of his own, which is frankly a bold assumption. Also assumes he's alone and didn't bring the typical 2-4 friends.

Feel free to make your own choices regarding self defense, by all means, but you fundamentally misunderstand the Tueller principle.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Citation need.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Did you have something meaningful you felt like adding?

Spelling

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I require a citation before blindly believing this claim?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I see, that is a no then, you don't have anything meaningful to add.

Sure I could spend the next hour double checking my sources, but I am sure that no amount of evidence would satisfy you.

If you would like to make a counter point you are more than welcome to. Though I do expect it with citations (in-text) APA or MLA, APA preferred.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Well I usually just send a link to a supporting article when asked rather than pretending that people aren't willing to lie on the internet. But you do you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Ammunition! Nothing beats practice to build comfort and confidence.

Other than getting your pistol and ensuring that it is secure, you need time to practice.

I always suggest any new shooter to purchase their gun and then spend around half as much again on ammunition.

Use ammoseek.com to get the best deals!