this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this.

Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 7 months ago (3 children)

You know what's baffling about this take is that at least mask off nazis have a very easy consistent non mental gymnastics take on it: "yes, they burned trans literature and it was good that they did so." Fascinating, now face the wall. I don't know what kind of pretzeling this moronic take requires. In fact, not only did Magnus Hirschfield's institute research queerness and transness, they undertook the first gender confirmation surgery. The woman in question, Dora Richter, is presumed killed during the attack on the institute or in custody after it. All of this information is incredibly easy to verify.

[–] [email protected] 74 points 7 months ago

She's probably operating under the assumption that trans people were invented in 2016.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I think the terf logic here is that it's slightly more socially acceptable to just erase trans people than to be outright on the side of nazis? Posy Parker doesn't seem to mind either way lol, but also the cultural awareness of queer people as holocaust victims still seems new and relatively small, so perhaps they see it as a defensible hill to die on.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I think JK Rowling is the type of transphobe that wants to pretend transness is new. Understanding that Nazis were burning books about trans people does more than put TERFs on the same side as nazis, it also means trans people have been here a lot longer than whatever it is she blames.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago

Oh yeah, erasing of the history is something that all queer people are subject to, because that history tells us that we've always been here and are perfectly natural to the world, which transphobes especially just cannot have.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 7 months ago (1 children)

she's reposted a thread someone very normal made about how Magnus was actually in cahoots with the nazis because he was such a eugenics fanboy, or something

[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Was he? It doesn’t justify anything either way, but I just don’t know if I should mad about her pretending to care about eugenics or mad about her making such a vile false accusation.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (8 children)

it absolutely doesn't excuse the fucking nazis, jk & co are trying to link trans ideology with eugenics, unethical experiments, seething about the children, it's just that same line about how she felt like she would have been transed today

it's disgusting

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Back then, there were unfortunately a lot of otherwise very smart people who were in favor of eugenics.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

Riding the high of Darwin’s revelations and pushing too far?

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago

Super cool that we live in the timeline where advocating for an end to the genocide of the Palestinians is anti-semetic but denying the crimes of the Third Reich is just a reasonable opinion.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 7 months ago

The terf to nazi pipeline is real

[–] [email protected] 57 points 7 months ago (2 children)

if you don't want to genocide every fucking Nazi bastard on this planet, you aren't a communist

[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Pest removal doesn’t count as genocide imo, but otherwise agree and would encourage you to go further. :Starmer:

[–] [email protected] 40 points 7 months ago (1 children)

this is true

Get organized, then watch your glorious progress as the steel union beats the shit out of the local fascists

[–] [email protected] 31 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And here I was thinking letting the welders at them would be best, but steel workers do have that muscle…. :blush:

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

but when it gets down to it, is there anything as hot as an anti-fascist?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

A welder turning a fascists face into that lost ark scene? Up to 400 F.

Fr tho, anyone who genuinely wants to bash the fash can make me overlook many things

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 7 months ago (2 children)

"fuck off" just doesn't feel strong enough.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 7 months ago

That's when you gotta take it to the gui-trans

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago

that's because holocaust denial should be met with lethal violence

[–] [email protected] 52 points 7 months ago

second-plane

Joanne Rowling has reached the holocaust denial phase of facism.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 7 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 7 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Uncritical support for Putin if he actually does this.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not one more word tonight

Between here and there

[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 40 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

it’s some terf’s actual human hair styled into a portrait of their favourite bigot author

[–] [email protected] 39 points 7 months ago

wtf thanks, that explains the name but also what in the actual hell is wrong with these people

[–] [email protected] 39 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Hirschfield seems like he was a cool dude but it always bugs me that there are so many famous CISGENDER MEN in the history of trans people :/

[–] [email protected] 50 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As much as I love the guy, what gets overlooked in popular understandings of the Institut für Sexualwissenchaft's work was that a great deal of it was the result of trans people coming in and advocating for themselves about what they wanted and the people at the institute working to find a solution. So in that sense, the creation of a somewhat primitive proto-gender affirming care regimine was done in direct collaboration with trans people, despite the fact that, like you say, a lot of cisgender men like Hirschfeld and Levy-Lenz got the credit for it.

Also, I had no idea we finally got a Hirschfeld emote, that rules hirschfeld

[–] [email protected] 31 points 7 months ago (2 children)

So who are the cool and rad trans people who self-advocated and helped to create the Institut? Has history recorded many of their names?

[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The most famous name is probably Dora Richter. She worked directly with Hirschfeld and she's usually regarded as the first known person to receive a vaginoplasty (in 1931). She had a very difficult life and disappeared off the face of the Earth in 1939 though.

Unfortunately though history wasn't great at recording the names of the various queer people who were clients at the institute. For one, most of them wanted privacy. 1930s Germany wasn't exactly the greatest time to be a publicly known queer person, so many of the records used pseudonyms or abbreviations of names. A lot of the recorded names are just a first name, last initial, and address, for instance. Second, the Nazis burned the Institut's archives, so much of the notes/research are lost.

I should also point out that Hirschfeld himself was a gay man. His partner, Karl Giese, was the Institut's head archivist and he was killed by the Nazis at the Lodz ghetto in 1942. Any amount of research you do into the history of this place will probably fill you with terrible sadness and I'm sorry. They were really ahead of their time, reaching near modern levels of understanding of queer people, and yet the entire thing was stomped to death by fascist scum.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago

Even just this does fill me with terrible sadness, it is depressing but it's a really critical part of our history to know. We're still here!

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Like axont said, the unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of these people are anonymous to the historical record. If you're interested in this history then I highly recommend Gay Berlin: Birthplace of a Modern Identity by Robert Beachy and The Hirschfield Archives: Violence, Death, and Modern Queer Culture by Heike Bauer, both of which are on libgen. The latter has a little bit about Dora Richter in chapter 4 under the heading A Space for Transgender, pages 86-87 in the hardcopy (not sure if the libgen version aligns with that or not). Another very interesting, albeit short, source on this kind of self-advocacy can be found in the account of an American doctor, William J. Robinson, who visited the Institute in 1925: https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015011423632?urlappend=%3Bseq=397%3Bownerid=13510798887791650-401 (pages 391-396 if that didn't link properly). He inaccurately uses the term 'homosexual' for every queer person he talks about, but it's pretty easy to pick up on who's trans from what he descibes. His description of Hirschfeld and the Institute is absolutely glowing, he seemingly can't heap enough praise on the work they were doing. One of my favorite parts is how he laments that he would love to set up a similar institution in the US, but deems American society to be far too reactionary to allow it,

"The scope of the Institute is a much wider one, embracing as it does the entire field of sexology. It is an institution absolutely unique in the whole world. It is an institution of which I dreamed for many years and which I hoped to establish in the United States but which I felt would not thrive on account of our prudish, hypocritical attitude to all questions of sex. In such an institution one has to have a free hand; the advice given must be unhampered by any fear of violating some medieval law or of colliding with a stupidly childish, and for that reason all the more tyrannical public opinion. What can be done in barbarous Europe cannot always be done in ultra-civilized North America. [...] The United States could certainly use five or six such Institutes—say one in New York, one in Boston, one in Chicago, one in Atlanta, one in San Francisco. They would all have plenty of work to do, and less ignorance and consequently less misery in sex matters would be the result. When I get back to New York I may try to establish the first Institute of this kind in the United States—thus doing on a large scale what I have been doing on a small scale for a quarter of a century. And then again I may not: too much hard, nerve-wrecking work."

Anyway, a bit more on topic: his article ends with a very bittersweet sentiment that I think about all the time, "May the [Institute] be built on a permanent, never to be shaken foundation." Fuck this billionaire freak for denying this horrific tragedy that saw the loss of invaluable queer history and research, and set us back decades in medical development and understanding of queer people. gui-trans

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago

it's one of those things where it just feels obvious that an effort should be made at every level to actually include trans people in the research about themselves. like my scientific training is in space shit, and let me tell you, if i could teach a blackhole how to research itself i fucking would have.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Damn you think she'd know the history of the people who bombed the living hell out of her parents / grandparents houses

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Okay, but that was just scary foreigners hating England for its freedom.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Very curious to see what that thread looks like (but not curious enough to create a Twitter account)

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago

Terfs gonna terf

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

pointing at Auschwitz

I just... I can't even. How could you just look at a bunch of bread baking ovens and think that? I've been to Germany. They are such nice people. Why would you accuse them of these awful things? It just doesn't make any sense.

Almost feels like there's a vast international conspiracy of (((media institutions))) intended to make the Germans look weak. Damn, wish someone had written a book about his struggle against this kind of thing.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So looking at these comments I guess I’m the only one who is wholly unable to decipher the quoted tweet. are they asking jk why she feels compelled to think and speak just like a nazi would, on matters pertaining to gender ? .

[–] [email protected] 43 points 7 months ago

yes, they're saying "why do you agree with the nazis about trans people?" and she goes "the nazis didn't burn books or kill trans people!"

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