I don't like the framing in this meme. “Wayland doesn't run on Nvidia” implies that it's a Wayland problem, but it's actually Nvidia that fails to develop a modern, working driver.
this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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"I can't believe Linux doesn't work with Adobe Photoshop!! Linux is shit and the devs need to fix their broken OS!"
That still sounds like a Wayland problem, just not one that they have control of
It is an Nvidia problem. And we need to insist on Nvidia being the problem until they give in. Their lack of wanting to take responsibility for distributing graphics cards on the market by not developing working drivers and not even letting the community fix it by open sourcing their driver is not something we should tolerate anymore. They pissed people enough at this point over the years, with their lack of participation in an driver problem-free environment on Linux, so they should and they will take the blame.
Exactly. If Nvidia started completely half-arsing their Windows drivers, nobody would blame Microsoft.
Yet here in Linux land, it's apparently the Linux devs' (many of whom aren't even paid) fault, as opposed to Nvidia's.
Honestly, Nvidia's marketing power is incredible. They make dogshit drivers and people point the finger at the OS developers rather than at Nvidia.
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Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they've put into getting it to the state it's in today, it's going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it's flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn't the case with X11. They all just work. That's kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn't matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can't use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say "Wayland is ready" while also saying "many of the apps for Wayland are not ready" ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
You are absolutely right, I use Wayland on KDE cause two different refresh rate monitores but duude, even on amd you have some hassles. It is ok if you change some env variables, not OK for the average Joe.
I'm so confused why other people are having so much trouble, I use two computers with AMD GPUs and one with Intel and I haven't had any problems with wayland on Gnome, Plasma, Sway, or Hyprland in the past like two years. The only environment variable I ever changed was the one to make firefox use wayland before that was the default, but that wasn't at all required for the average user, it works fine under xwayland.
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GTK, Qt, Firefoxes XUL, Electron (Chromium), Iced, and more support Wayland. You dont develop apps for Wayland, you develop them with a GUI toolkit.
Fair enough. All I know is to get something as simple and necessary to my workflow as using KeePassXC, I had to adjust a few QT flags in my environment variables. No big deal as I actually enjoy configuring my system, but it's in my opinion Wayland will be "ready" when this sort of under the hood tweaking won't be necessary by the user.
Here, I'll pose a simple question that kind of gets at the heart of what I'm talking about. Libreoffice works great on Wayland right? Good, fantastic, kudos to Libreoffice, kudos to Wayland. Now, name me a 2nd office suite that works on Wayland. Just one. This is a genuine question and despite my decent google fu, I can't find a one. I got Open Office to open on Wayland, but it doesn't recognize the entire suite.
Now, this may seem like an unfair argument to make, as there were never many office suites available on Linux to begin with. And there's always been people in the Linux community who will call for more uniformity, but I, like many others, love Linux for it's extreme customizability (amongst other reasons). Wayland severely cuts down on my choices of what TWMs I can use, what DEs are available, and various widely used productivity tools like office suites.
The amount of knots Wayland enthusiasts tie themselves up in to say "but if you just configure this flag, if you just run this through xwayland/game scope, if you just don't use nvidia, then wayland is ready" is just pointing to the fact that it's straight up not.
And that's not the fault of any one entity. Writing a protocol like Wayland is a massive endeavor and is needed. But developers across the board who want to provide support for Linux, are now scrambling to rewrite parts of their applications to conform to this new protocol because yes, they see the writing on the wall (especially with the latest lines in the sand drawn by Red Hat). But isn't the fact that their scrambling to get this accomplished, and convert their apps to Wayland, an indicator that maybe, just maybe, that Wayland as a daily driver for, if not the majority, at least a reasonable part of the Linux community, not ready?
I'm not saying Wayland isn't the future. What I'm saying is until discussions like these are the outlier, not the norm, Wayland isn't ready.
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Weird, i feel like I should be getting more errors with how the comment section is making wayland sound, but on my mac 2019 it was honestly plug n play even for sunshine game stream (and supports waydroid which brought me over)
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I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn't even try.
I'll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than "is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool"
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of "Wayland is here"... so yeah, I'll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don't get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
Wayland has both screen capture and screen sharing.
We have XWaylandVideoBridge for X11 only applications.
Fair enough. I used XFCE for 15 years and decided to give Hyprland a go. Still some rough edges, and some shockingly basic things are still being figured out (should multiple windows from the same process be able to set different icons, and windows being able to set--or even hint--where they want to go), but overall I've had basically zero issues, and I'm enjoying it enough that I made the change permanent. Screen share and streaming work fine. I wouldn't call the overall functionality mature, but it's perfectly workable. Unless, you know...Nvidia. I've heard it's gotten a bit better lately, but I wouldn't have switched if I hadn't gone AMD for my new GPU.
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My Desktop runs wayland on nvidia.... so?!
What I don't like about Wayland is that many things are specific to individual DEs. Like global shortcuts or taking screenshots. In my app I have two different solutions for taking screenshots in GNOME and KDE using XDG portals. It causes fragmentation.
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Screen sharing is still a pain in my experience. I'm a tiling window manager guy. I used i3 for years. Switched to sway, but have issues because xdg-desktop-portal-wlr can't do application sharing, only entire screen sharing. Well I have a ultra ultra wide screen, so people can't see shit on normal monitors when I try to share my screen. So at work, where I regularly have video conferences, I'm constantly changing my screen resolution so that I can screen share something that looks OK to others, but 1980x1024 looks ridiculous on my end on my ultrawide.
Hyperland can share applications and even regions, which is awesome, and I tested it successfully on my home gentoo system, but it only worked on Firefox. Didn't work for my jitsi electron app and didn't work in qutebrowser. And hyperland isn't easily installable on Ubuntu which is what I run for work because my work computer needs to just werk (gentoo is probably even more stable but I can't mess with long complie upgrades at work and some corporate software is only available as .debs)
So yea my life would honestly be easier if I just stuck with i3 everywhere but I'm stubbornly trying to use Wayland because I know it's the future but don't kid yourselves, it is a pain in the ass
I miss Firefox remembering where its windows were when it restarts >_>
It’s such a small thing, but it’s the one I encounter most.
This debate is so fucking stupid. X. Is. Dead.
Install Wayland, file bug reports, help everyone move into the future.
X is dead
Looks like I'm quitting my job because Wayland is the future asshat. How about I just run both X and Wayland on my computer, file bug reports on what doesn't work with Wayland, and continue to use X until they fix it or you pull your head out of your own ass? Whichever comes first.
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Extreme shortage of desktop environments that support Wayland. I don't want to use either Gnome or KDE, I'm currently using LXQt with i3wm.
If you like i3, sway is a drop in replacement for it that uses wayland. I'm not sure if you could make LXQt work with it but it's worth a shot
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For like half a second my brain thought this was a meme comparing the fictional megacorps Zorg Industries from "The Fifth Element" and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation from the "Alien" franchise.
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wouldnt be so sure. My AMD 780m iGPU has all sorts of weird issues on wayland atm. drivers are hella immature atm
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I threw my nvidia card in the trash, majority of problems solved
Most things would be solved if mainteners EVER updated their app's electron version or stopped doing custom things with it and just let electron read $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/electron-flags.conf
The situation is rapidly getting better, and I’m daily driving Fedora 38 with 3060Ti using the RPMFusion Nvidia driver and Gnome+Wayland. Everything (and I do mean everything) I’ve tried has all its basic functionality at baseline. Xwayland is a thing and it covers for not having true Wayland support in alot of cases. Not like there aren’t bugs and QOL issues, but from what I’ve seen Nvidia is engaged and working to fix them. We should probably try to critique Nvidia/Wayland based on specific issues now, instead of broad brush “Nvidia/Wayland bad” rhetoric…
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
I see people having a good to great experience with NVIDIA on Wayland. I lack that ability, I can never get my PC to run well on Wayland. (using the propriety drivers) hoping the new GSP firmware and the improvements to MESA-Nouveau + NVK fixes my issues. even if their are teething pains. because of how unusable it currently just is for me. course if I had the money, the easiest fix to make Linux usable for me is to buy a AMD GPU. FYI, I have a 2070Super. It is a consistently bad experience on it, with the NVIDIA propriety drivers.
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I have a weird setup, which is my fault I guess, but it results in me having two keyboards with different languages. And I frequently switch between them in my workflow, so it can be super annoying to manually switch the language every time.
On X I use a combination of two tools to automatically set the language per keyboard, which works even when hotplugging.
On wayland I found no alternative so far, but if you have any ideas, please let me know.
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Wayland doesn't like my ivy bridge no gpu lil guy, so x11 best for me
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Does ssh -X work with Wayland (either as the sender, receiver, or both) yet?
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Sometimes apps just don't work properly in Wayland, I have two development VMs with Ubuntu, and in both cases I had to switch to X11 because of UI issues with Wayland and eclipse plugins or crashes when I closed a terminal window.
On the other hand I use Wayland on my own desktop and have not seen any problems.
nothing puts the fear of god into me like reinstalling nvidia drivers
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xrandr. afaik, there's no (standard) way to set display resolution from the command line in wayland. also, there's no equivalent of xkill, so in order to kill an unresponsive gui app, you have to grep for its pid in ps, which can get a bit tedious and annoying, especially for programs which spawn multiple processes.
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