Political pressure builds on Biden to strike Iran after US deaths
Defence Contractor Company Shareholder Pressure Builds on Biden to Strike Iran
Sorted that headline for ya
this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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I'm just glad to have such a recent and relevant example of how Biden doesn't bow to pressure from voters.
I hate US politics
Biden could have stopped this conflict and got all the hostages released back in October if he temporarily withheld arms from Bibi. But he'd rather infantilize Israel with his bear hug policy. He can't fathom it's a government of ultra right individuals assembled to protect Bibi from corruption charges.
Citation needed. Bibi wasn't begging for more arms. He had plenty. Granted this was 100% an unforced catastrophe on Biden's part. But Biden couldn't have stopped shit. Ask yourself why the house and senate aren't up in arms over this. Or where your concern was the last 15 years where Israel quietly slaughtered far more Palestinians without media attention. Under multiple administrations. Almost like it's not a Biden problem. But a general problem.
Warmonger Bibi doesn't care about tens of billions in military aid to a country of less than 10 million? Get the fuck out of here.
Oh, he cares. He just doesn't care if it comes from the US, or China, or Russia. No aid means no influence.
What's going on in Gaza is what Bibi lives for, and it's what his base elected him to do. He'd send the IDF in with clubs and slingshots of that were the only option.
What? Read all the thread. Of course he cares. Israel gets $1000s per person with these big US aid packages and that post I replied to tried to argue that doesn't matter.
Bibi was elected as Mr. Security and Israelis are pissed because he allowed the biggest terror attack under his watch. I'm not saying Israel will fundamentally change, but it's very normal for voters to dump ineffective leaders and Bibi is bad for the security of Israel.
Nice strawman. Can't address what was said I see.
Senator Holden Bloodfeast (118)
So 10k (random low number) deaths for 3 US military personel who signed up for such a possibility? Capitalists don't seem to be able to count when their opponent isn't white skinned.
Edit: specifying that I am predicting the deaths if U.S was to bomb iran or some shit.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the point of a retaliatory military strike. The tit for tat bean counting with human lives isn't even a large part of the calculus ultimately.
Not retaliating is seen as a sign of weakness which would serve to undermine NATO's military stance of absolute first strike authority at anytime for any reason. Allowing Iran to attack US troops without a military response is relinquishing, in some small way, the US backed monopoly on violence. Right, wrong, or indifferent that is simply not something that will be allowed to happen.
Or how to keep global terrorism with a never ending supply of angry young people.
Fueling adversaries is good for the military sector.
We could give that whole thing a catchy name, like military industrial complex or something.
Your correct that military action does inflame people. But this action is trying to stop the people sponsoring the terrorist.
A better approach would be to stop sponsoring Israel's genocidal war on Palestine. This would decrease tensions and allow diplomatic options to become viable.
Israel had a cease fire, which appears to have been motivated by the US pausing delivery of weapons to Israel. As soon as the weapons were delivered they went right back at it. So the US does have considerable influence.
The people doing these attacks in Yemen claim they are trying to disrupt Israel and it's war on Gaza. Take away their moral cover and their support will weaken. They'll be seen as terrorists if they don't stop and will be politically easier to attack and politically harder to support.
But this action is trying to stop the people sponsoring the terrorist.
And how did it work out so far? Terrorism is the result of dis-balance of power which makes terrorism the only viable method of resistance. You can't solve terrorism with war. I like how you kind of managed to understand that in the case of Palestine/Israel conflict, but somehow stopped thinking right after that.
Nobody knows how to stop terrorism. There are a lot of hypothesis. However they are either untested in the real world, or they have failed.
You need to solve the underlying conflicts?
That is one hypothesis. While it sounds reasonable, we don't actually know if it would work. We also have no clue how to solve the underlying conflicts. (Other than simplistic things like turning the entire middle east to glass - killing many innocent people in the process).
we don’t actually know if it would work.
We could try, because we know that the alternatives don't work for sure.
We also have no clue how to solve the underlying conflicts.
I would say that the bigger problem is that people in power don't actually want to solve the conflicts at all.
Try which? I've seen many ideas, we cannot try them all. Some of the ideas have been tried as well, but the proposers don't have enough history to know that or the results. Most of them will take decades to implement. This isn't an easy problem.
Try no to kill thousands of civilians in response.
Do you also include civilians who are killed by someone else if we don't take action? While "we" can do better about killing civilians, whoever "we" is, there is a "someone else" who will kill civilians as well - maybe a different group of civilians, but they will themselves do some killing.
I'm talking about disproportional response to terrorism - I thought it was pretty clear.
You mean like how America got owned in Afghanistan?
The attack didn't even get claimed by Iran but by Iraq. No matter how much Genocide Joe just blames Iran for everything it doesn't magically make it true.
And this is all Israel fault. Gotta remember it when things start to escalate seriously.
Now I'm no supporter of Israel's genocide in Gaza, but your statement is way too reductive.
The current disaster in Gaza was ignited by Hamas on October 7th, no doubt at the encouragement of Iran. And yes, Israel definitely bears a significant amount of responsibility for creating the tinder box that October 7th sparked, and also has certainly fanned the flames with enthusiasm.
But responsibility for the escalation and continuation of the situation rests also on Iran, on Hamas and the Houthis, and also to a lesser degree on the US and other Western allies that enable Israel.
Talk about reductive.
The October 7 invasion of Israel by Hamas was also a result of 75 years of illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel.
I'm sorry, I don't follow what you're trying to convey here.
That there is an even bigger picture than in my comment? Well, yes, of course. The Israel-Palestine situation is a hundred year old mess.
But how was my comment reductive as well? I didn't lay the blame squarely at the feet of any one party, which is far closer to the truth than saying "It's all Israel's fault."
And if you take contention with me being nuanced, please consider that by doing so you don't actually do any favours to the conversation and therefore a peaceful resolution that is as fair as can possibly be achieved.
So, if it helps you come back to the table, please know that I absolutely think what Israel is doing is appalling and they have an obscene power disparity over the Palestinian people and are abusing that wholesale - when they could use it to create peace.
It's about as illegal as the US's occupation of America.
By that logic, the solution to the conflict is a federation in which all citizen subjects have representative power 👹
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So any action from Hamas (or Palestinian resistance in general) gets hit back with Israeli retaliation. Does that mean they should just not do anything and hope daddy Israel gives them a mile of land after a century?
I'm... really not sure what point you're trying to make to me here, sorry.
Unless you're trying to strawman me, in which case - why?
You said the escalation of the situation is the fault of Hamas. But the thing is, if Hamas (and Palestinian resistance in general) don't do anything they'll never get out of their situation. And anything they do can be presented as an escalation.
No, that isn't what I said. I said Hamas ignited the current disaster - which is one step in a whole series of disastrous moves by both the State of Israel and Hamas.
But to address your point of what are the Palestinians to do? There isn't a nice clean answer for that because the burden of responsibility lies on both sides - moreso on the side with the greater power (so, Israel).
But terrorism isn't helpful when it leads to the genocide of your people.
If Hamas hadn't done October 7th, then a lot more innocent Israelis, Palestinians, and Gazans would still be alive today.
If you're trying to suggest that it's a means to an end... Well first of all, the ends do not justify the means. Second of all - what end exactly has Hamas helped achieve here?
No, that isn’t what I said. I said Hamas ignited the current disaster - which is one step in a whole series of disastrous moves by both the State of Israel and Hamas.
Yes, but like I just said that logic can be extended to any action by Hamas that invites Israeli response, which is most of them.
But terrorism isn’t helpful when it leads to the genocide of your people.
Palestinians are the victims of genocide either way at the pre-Oct 7th rate. Israel was waiting for an excuse to do something like this.
If you’re trying to suggest that it’s a means to an end… Well first of all, the ends do not justify the means.
This logic doesn't apply to the concept of war. The whole idea of war is that there's some goal that one or both sides decides is worth killing people for. There are some things the world has agreed (while crossing their fingers behind their backs) can't be done no matter your cause, but war has always been about the ends justifying the means.
Second of all - what end exactly has Hamas helped achieve here?
Israel is rapidly losing international support. This is having effects even now, but it'll be even more apparent as older generations die off. And they stopped Saudi naturalization.
killing people, using hospitals as base of operations and raping hostages sure does not aid those terrorists of the Hamas...
Unconditional surrender worked out pretty well for Japan and Germany. Palestine keeps choosing violence, losing more and more because of it, and they're all out of ideas.
You always go on about this, but just for anyone who actually buys this Germany and Japan are completely different situations. More correct comparisons would be North Ireland during the Troubles or Apartheid South America, or the civil rights movement in America. Something tells me unconditional surrender wouldn't have helped in these situations.
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