Updates about lemmynsfw.com
So I understand the prioritizing safety for legal reasons. But I don’t get why you’re so concerned with staying federated with non-NSFW instances. Making a different account for NSFW content is very common, and other NSFW instances are unlikely to be very concerned about fringe (but legal) kink stuff and want to defederate.
If for example lemmy.world (or beehaw if they haven’t already) defed’d this instance, why do we care?
The purpose of the lemmyverse is be federated as a platform overall. If you aren’t at least attempting federation with other instances you’re more or less just a forum (imo)
That and it would cripple the instance. If every single instance defederated from us, user growth would stagnate. Seeing the content federate into all incentivizes people to join in and engage.
Isn't a forum, as a concept, exactly what each Lemmy instance is?
As for growth, you will grow organically without explicit federation with non-nsfw instances. Lemmeynsfw is the porn Lemmy right now. You don't need to have your porn popping up elsewhere for users to find you.
The content of this instance is such that:
Which means growth is guaranteed. Nevermind that explicitly trying to grow a community through non-organic means (where the community needs to make concessions for growth) harm communities instead of making them better.
On a semi-related note, I created a tool to check which instances have defederated a certain Lemmy server. It works by getting the servers linked instance list, and for each of those check linked instance list, to see if the first server is blocked. It takes (quite) a few minutes to run, and it only ever hits each server once or twice, so it's pretty chill resource-wise.
As a side-effect, you can also use it to check which of the linked servers are offline in any way, so you could defederate those yourself to limit the amount of needless retries.
As I said, It can take a while to run, so I'll report back once the script is done :)
Okay, that took a little longer than expected. Here's the confirmed list of Lemmy services that have defederated from LemmyNSFW:
partizle.com
aussie.zone
lemmy.ml
feddit.de
lemmy.intai.tech
lemmy.douwes.co.uk
lemmy.serverfail.party
talk.kururin.tech
dormi.zone
lemmy.tillicumnet.com
feddit.dnico.io
lemmy.procrastinati.org
crystals.rest
mlem.lea.moe
lemmygrad.ml
lemmy.design
pcglinks.com
discuss.divergentparenting.space
dmv.social
distress.digital
i.d0ntknow.me
lemmy.hqueue.dev
borg.chat
forkk.me
lemthony.com
lemmy.bleh.au
on.syrma.cc
lemmy.ecliptik.com
ducks.dev
udclemmy.xyz
lemmy.starmade.de
lemmy.calebmharper.com
lemmy.dangilbert.eu
lemmonade.marbledfennec.net
bigfoot.ninja
techy.news
lemiverse.xyz
geddit.social
lemmy.safe-internet.org
sopuli.xyz
lemmy.federate.cc
chat.maiion.com
poptalk.scrubbles.tech
lemmy.borlax.com
lemmyfly.org
civilloquy.com
leddit.social
surlesworld.com
lemmy.fromshado.ws
lemmy.mb-server.com
We are aware of this list and it should be noted that most (or nearly all) of these are due to either legal concerns for hosting links to pornography in their host country or due to “no porn” rules. :)
Which seems fine, why would lemmynsfw try and federate with lots of other non-nsfw instances anyways? People are driven to making nsfw alts, and porn is one of those content types that enjoy long term organic growth without any advertising as users explicitly seek it out.
I use my lemmynsfw account for posting on regular communities all the time! I kinda think it's funny.
Revised Rules for Sidebar
Before you start participating, please take a moment to familiarize yourself with our rules:
🔞 Age Requirement: All users and lurkers MUST be age 18 or over.
Respect and Consent: Treat all members with respect and obtain consent when sharing explicit content involving others. No doxxing. No soliciting or sharing personal info. No homophobia, transphobia, body shaming, or kinkshaming. Don’t be an asshole.
No NSFL/Gore/Snuff Content: We strictly forbid the sharing or promotion of NSFL (Not Safe For Life) or gore content. This includes fictional snuff scenarios.
No Bestiality/Zoophilia: We strictly forbid any NSFW content involving animals.
No Non-Consensual Content: We strictly forbid content made or released without consent of everyone in the content, including revenge porn / deepfakes / leaked content / NC / true voyeur / rape content.
No Illegal Content: - We strictly forbid promotion and detailed discussion of things that are broadly illegal in most of the world, like murder, animal cruelty, money laundering, and so on. Our policy on mind-altering substances is more complicated – see the FAQ (link to FAQ pending).
NSFW Flag: All NSFW communities and posts must be flagged as NSFW.
No Rules Lawyering: Admin/Moderator decisions are final and arguing with them can result in suspension or banning of your account and purging of your content.
If any material is ambiguous or borderline forbidden content, we’re usually going to err on the side of caution. Please use your common sense.
All users and communities must follow and respect these general instance-wide rules. Any violations could result in suspension or banning of your account or community and purging of your content.
Because of technical limitations of the Lemmy platform, we are forced to implement some restrictions on content. These are restrictions that don’t necessarily fit with our larger philosophy. We hope to revise this section once Lemmy evolves as a platform and moderation tools improve.
If you are the admin of another instance and you have any issues with Lemmy NSFW please raise it with one of our admins so we can communicate on how we can improve this instance. We would prefer to work with you before either of us consider defederation.
... and then the rest of the stuff currently on the sidebar: Contact info and the Donations info
Solicitation of sexual services (either way, asking or offering) is strictly forbidden.
Was wondering if you'd be willing to re-word this sentence, as OnlyFans (and similar) is technically a sexual service (albeit digital).
No Non-Consensual Content: We strictly forbid content made or released without consent of everyone in the content, including revenge porn / deepfakes / leaked content / NC / true voyeur / rape content.
What about NC content that happened in movies/tv shows ? I've encountered some rape scenes, harassment, etc. That scenes can be hardcore or not. Is this forbidden too ? I've to take scenes like that as light as possible, making them out of context so it doesn't seems that "horrible". But yeah, for hardcore ones it's not possible. I'm asking this because I'm aware some people may find it very upsetting (even with the assumption everything is done with actors' consent)
For porn, I've encountered one of my favorite rough/NC porn like brutal x. I've noticed that at the very end of their videos, they clarify performers directly to make sure everything is done with their consent. Which I think it's really good
Edit : more clarity
This seems like a great start.
I’m sure you’ll find more corner cases as these rules start to be enforced.
I just hope you have the patience to see it through, although I’m sure some vocal people will get very up in your face about it.
yuuuuuuuuup. But that's why they pay us the big bu- wait, what's that? we're not getting paid? Then why the fuck am I even here? Call my agent!
I'd like to add that we are specifically looking into improved community identification methods. One on the table is a "nsfw+" concept for topics that may not be "mainstream" but aren't "illegal" - scat, pee, hentai beast, etc. These we would rather not show "on the main feed" or maybe even not federate, but we're not opposed to hosting. It's just that we want to make the instance appealing to the regular person. For those who want their "extreme" content - as long as it's legal, I think we all agree we don't necessarily mind it.
I'm open to hearing the community on this. With that said, "loli/shota" content where the object of eroticism is specifically that "they are a prepubescent child" will never be allowed. Don't start with that.
I only have one kink, and that's novelty. So I am missing some of the more "diverse" content (the consensual legal stuff obviously!).
The internet has plenty of places for "regular" porn, but only on communities like this (and before Reddit) that I'll discover that I'm turned on by 1-legged clowns eating skittles out of a girls ass.
Understand the need to make it welcoming to all, but hope you guys find a way to keep it weird while you're at it!
shouldnt it just read “they are a child” is not allowed?
their pre or post pubescent status doesnt seem to be relevant
The problem here is hentai content based of anime characters. Most of these characters are under 18 canonically and thus any erotic content wouldn't be allowed under current ruling even though they look like and act like adults.
Then there's the gray zone for characters that have progressed or regressed in age in some way, a good example is Ciel from the visual novel Tsukihime who technically is past her 20s, but her body stopped aging at 26 due to lore reasons. Under current ruling it would be hard to be certain whether it's allowed or not even though she both looks and act like an adult (although a weird one as Nasu can't write a proper R18 scene to save his damn life). Another issue is aged up variants of characters where their canonical age is way below 18 but the art depicts them as above it.
That said I do stand by enforcing an age limit for real people, but when it comes to fictional characters (and anime characters in particular) it makes more sense to go by appearance, this rule would include all these characters while still disallowing Loli/Shota which is the main concern for other instances (see burggit for example). This draws a clear line with less ambiguity than "they are a child" as not everyone may have the same opinion and this could lead to more things getting hit in the crossfire than is necessary, yes I know this leaves characters like Megumin in the gray, but it's not as big of a gray zone as "not a child"
I think we'll just have to bite the bullet and make another hentai-instance. Hentai can not and will not work under rules like these.
What about short women? There's a community called Shortstacks. So are they considered underage because they're short? What about Midna from Zelda? Do we just need to add boobs to make a character into an adult? Are flatchests just completely forbidden since you can't assess wether someone is 17, 19 or 21? (Hell the Evangelion girls (Asuka and Rei) are 14 and 13 and look like somewhere between 17 and 19 to me)
Edit: I think the FAQ (haven't read it yet when I wrote this) solves the issue with underage hentai. I still think it's quite restrictive but hey it's probably the best we can get with all the Americans losing their minds over this.
Q. Does rule 1 mean that we can’t talk about our personal experiences from when we were minors?
A. No, members of the instance can discuss their personal experiences with sex before the age of 18 as long as it is relevant, factual, and not graphic. “I lost my virginity in the back of a Volkswagen beetle when I was 15” is fine. A post that is a blow-by-blow detailed account of underage sex or a post specifically soliciting stories about underage sex would not be fine.
Q. What does “sourcing” mean? Why should we have to do that?
A. Sourcing is identifying the source of the content that you’re posting. Our primary concern is being able to tell if material is underage, or not made with the consent of the model. Sourcing helps alleviate that concern.
It can be as simple as naming the mainstream artist or studio that produced the image, or the well-known performer in the image (“Evil Angel” or “Sasha Grey” or “Boris Vallejo”). If the content is not a mainstream studio or well-known pornstar, a link to the creator’s OF or modeling agency page or pornhub profile or verified reddit profile can work as well. The source must indicate, at very least, that the creators/models of what you’re sharing are ok with being in porn on the internet.
You don’t have to source your posts, but sourcing will help your posts survive a report if someone erroneously reports your material. We don’t have the resources to do a full investigation on every report of inappropriate content, so without a source, mods will tend to err on the side of caution.
For OC posts in c/gonewild and similar communities, mods of that forum must comply with our verification requirements. For OC, verification counts as sourcing which means it is not strictly necessary but strongly encouraged. We plan to implement a sitewide verification procedure soon, but until we do it’s down to each community’s mods.
Q. How does verification work?
A. There are a couple of different ways to get verified, but the most important thing to remember is that no moderator or admin will ever ask you to show them your government ID. If someone does ask you to provide them your government ID, please contact an admin immediately.
We are actively investigating hiring a secure third-party age verification site like agechecker.net to provide verification for us. Until that comes into effect, we accept the existence of an Onlyfans, Fansly, Chaturbate, Streamate, or Pornhub account, or appearance in a 2257-compliant adult film as verification. If you and an admin can come up with another way of verification that does not involve sending your government ID to them, we will also accept that pending approval by a second admin.
Q. What’s your policy on drug-related content?
A. Because of the wide variability in the laws worldwide regarding mind-altering substances, linking to any site which distributes (for sale or otherwise) mind-altering substances or paraphernalia, regardless of legality where you are or where the site is located, is prohibited. This includes but is not limited to any cannabis or cannabis-analogues, any prescription meds, any alcohol, and any tobacco. Discussion of these substances is allowed; links to commerce or distribution are not.
Q. How do I know what counts as NSFW and what doesn’t?
A. When in doubt, flag it as NSFW. If it’s not something that could be pinned on a bulletin board in a professional office without drawing an HR complaint, it’s NSFW. Something doesn’t have to be nude to be NSFW. Feet pics are always NSFW.
Q. I am an NSFW content creator. Can I promote my OnlyFans, Fansly, Pornhub etc?
A. lemmynsfw.com supports sex workers and creators and we want you to feel like you belong here. We do not have an instance-wide rule against self-promotion, but be aware that individual communities may prohibit self-promotion and you must respect those rules. Please do not spam our instance and please do not spam messages to users, but feel free to create a comm for yourself if you like and participate in other comms that are friendly to your content. Solicitation of sexual services is strictly forbidden. (Fuck SESTA/FOSTA.)
Q. For drawings or animation, including manga and hentai, how can I tell if something counts as forbidden content or not? I can’t tell!
A. Trying to make hard and fast rules about this stuff is always tricky because people will keep trying to find ways around the rules and the human imagination is infinite, so we are going with a subjective standard: If a mod or admin looks at an image and thinks “that is forbidden content”, it’s forbidden content. We’ll know it when we see it. (And you know it when you see it too, quit lying. If you’re into forbidden content there are other instances where that material is welcome. Bring it there. We don’t want it here.)
Q. Does the prohibition on bestiality/zoophilia apply to fantasy animals, like Pokemon or magical winged ponies?
A. Yes. We may relax this rule in the future like the some of the content we are temporarily restricting, but that is not a sure thing yet.
Q. Why are you so strict? Reddit wasn’t this strict!
A. We’re not reddit and we’re not trying to be reddit. We have decided to prioritize safety and consent, which means prohibiting some content that Reddit may have allowed.
Q. Oh yeah? Well I’m gonna start my own instance! With blackjack! And hookers!
A. Godspeed, you beautiful maniac.
Admin/Moderator decisions are final and arguing with them can result in suspension or banning of your account and purging of your content.
Admin/Moderator decisions are final and arguing with them can result in suspension or banning of your account and purging of your content.
There are many moderators that I've seen given a position after simply offering themselves in a post. And we can't ask for a review of an action of a random person that has the title of moderator? Excuse me but if that is the case, this is feeling like quite a red flag to me.
If there is an issue with a moderators decision, please contact an admin for further review. There is work being done to try figure out how make it so that posts can have a reporting distinction of some kind, kind of like how Reddit did. Sort of (report to site staff) and (report to community)
Thanks for the reply and clarification. I still see as troublesome the wording in the part I mentioned. I can understand that you want to cut fast the issues with annoying users but from outside there can also be concerns about moderator abuse.
"Admin/Moderator decisions are final and arguing with them can result in suspension or banning of your account and purging of your content."
At reddit, we ran into an issue where a moderator took issue with a post of of ours (a verification, actually, so it was extra obvious we were new there). We sent a very respectful and apologetic response to their message asking only for clarification about the rule so we could avoid violating it in the future. The response was an immediate and permanent ban across 12 separate subreddits that this person moderated.
We believe most mods wish to help and are genuinely doing their best, but in cases of abuse, what recourse would we have?
Temporary Content Restrictions: The following content is temporarily restricted: Hot lunch (🤮), blood, scat, CNC.
How does your team distinguish between CNC and hard/brutal BDSM?
Is hard/brutal BDSM allowed or not? (temporarily)
For OC posts in c/gonewild and similar communities, mods of that forum must comply with our verification requirements. For OC, verification counts as sourcing which means it is not strictly necessary but strongly encouraged. We plan to implement a sitewide verification procedure soon, but until we do it’s down to each community’s mods.
I assume "we plan to implement a sitewide verification procedure" doesn't mean it will be needed to use the instance, but just for any posting or mod work.
Correct. It won't be for using the site in general, rather for those posting OC so they can be sourced and vouched for. It'll be the same as others where we won't outward require all to be verified before posting always, but more so in the same instance we don't outright require sourcing but strongly suggest it. If it's not sourced, and issues is raised and it seems to be probable/sourcing isnt there and we cant really verify beyond that, it'll be removed and its on the user to appeal that. It'll be a means of "sourcing" OC creators basically. We plan on trying to hash it out more but it will likely work similarly to reddit sub specific verification (but sitewide) with an OC verification and an age verification when in question. More info will be available as we hash it out more. Think the way gonewild does, like holding a sign. We want to have more control over it than reddit did and also make sure the people we are placing in the specific community responsible for doing verifications are fully vouched for by site staff instead of having a bunch of communities making up their own procedure and that own mess.
Could something like how Mastodon handles verification be implemented here?
I like how that method retains our privacy (and our sanity, from having to take dozens of verification photos in various angles for picky subreddit mods.)
Even without a website to paste html into, something like, adding a user specific verification code into their public profile on an 18+ site where their ID has already been checked (if the user is selling on an adult platform, for example.)
Of course, this would not work for users without these pre-verified profiles, but I think it's a good start.
I agree. Having to submit a million different verification posts drove me insane 😂
We are hoping to incorporate that in some way, potentially adding your lemmy account link temporarily to an existing adult platform that we know has age verification checks. We want to avoid having to check government IDs if we can, or at the very least have options for those who don't want to.
Are there any rules about copyright? Many porn studios do not endorse the distribution of their videos/photography off their official website (paywalled content).
This is a really great question. From over my 5+ years experience modding on Reddit, we generally know which porn studios don't DMCA claim (most implicitly do allow some sharing of their content (single images, small galleries, vid clips) as long as studio logo/copyright watermarks are preserved, not cropped out) vs which ones do blanket broad copyright claims.
for example, I have not heard of MetArt network do any claims vs I think we all know about Mindgeeks-owned brands like Brazzers
Of course, the past is not a predictor for the future.
Couple questions:
(Annoyingly, 99% of the content that comes out of Japan is about teens and has to be aged up. Even if they don't even look or act like highschoolers! Exhibit A: Jojo's Bizzare Adventure Part 3-5)
(I'm partially asking this because I think this rule/question is fucking hilarious, but also because it would basically nuke a fairly active community on here.)
Depending on how far the noncon rule applies, I foresee an issue with media sharing.
Very little media will have explicit consent to be shared in our communities, or even social media in general. If we interpret the sharing as part of what you consent to (as is the case with OC but not revenge porn), no found media can be allowed.
If we allow the commonly used fair/similar use principle (found media may typically be shared in the same type of setting it was found) - how do we differentiate between found porn and found revenge porn?
If we mod as a response to reports, as in: we allow it until someone reports this being wrongful content, the rules will be fine, but obscure or poorly modded communities risk becoming seedy and drag the whole instance reputation down.
But these thoughts can't be novel, has anyone checked if there's a well tested out best practice to keep mods, community and admin safe?
Yeah, it's a sticky wicket for sure. Because look, if someone reports an image to me as noncon and I look at it and it's an obvious studio shot, multiple lights, professional hair and makeup, model looks like she's posing for the camera, I might say this is probably fine even if I don't recognize the model. Is it possible it's noncon? Sure, but on balance it likely isn't.
But if it's like a smartphone shot of a ambiguously-youthful young lady in a dark bedroom, who I don't recognize and I can't source it easily because the source is undefined and there's no watermark and/or I can't quick google image search it, I'm going to give serious consideration to removing it. There's other factors involved, of course, including context and identity, but I think as a society we're starting to move into the realm of explicit consent being the gold standard. If I can't see or at least strongly imply evidence of that consent, I've got to at least consider removing the image.
Consent would also be an issue in that a lot of porn stars have actively stated that certain scenes they have done were not at all consensual.
Yup and if people post those scenes and we're aware and reasonably sure that they're noncon, they will be removed. We actually have a (very incomplete) list of specific studios, performers, etc. we are not going to tolerate for that exact reason. Currently we're debating whether to make that list public or not, because on the one hand we don't want to be like "if you want rape and underage content, google these terms" but on the other hand it might prevent people from posting something innocently that they didn't know was bad.
Please share that list. I have no clue which studio's have consent issues.
Really good stuff. But the FAQ doesn't mention how one would go about removing content. Whether it's the original author/artist or a victim of revenge porn.
@[email protected] can you edit the post with links to the comments with the proposed rules?
Lots of scrolling for mobile users.
Thanks!