My first impression when something is being called vegan is that it was made with compromise, it has some deficiencies that its non-vegan version would would taste better with.
this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
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Exactly. How can people who don’t eat hamburgers know what a good hamburger tastes like? How can they think a tofurkey is anywhere close to a real one?
Thankfully, like gluten free foods, vegan ones are getting better. Though I still don’t trust vegan cheese.
My wife recently developed an allergy to dairy. There are some decent pizza blends and cheddar jack, but there are also a few that look and taste like melted plastic.
I end up making 2 pizzas (since the other 3 people in the house still eat dairy) and her pizza is more gooey than stringy, but I’ll eat the leftovers of either no problem.
One thing that made me enjoy pizzas alot more after having stopped eating cheese is to just have it without the cheese (or substitutes). Honestly sometimes I think I prefer it that way as I feel cheese can sometimes smother some of the more vibrant flavors. Highly recommend giving it a go!
Yeah my crust game has improved and I copied/improved a crust seasoning based on one from King Arthur’s Flour.
Brushed olive oil, seasoning and some brewers/nutritional yeast make really great breadsticks. And I can do it in about 30 minutes start to finish (plus a little more oven preheat time).
I assume the foods are developed and tested by non-vegans
The newer ones are, but I've had plenty of meat replacements that definitely weren't.
Yeah, before the current trend of sustainable / halthy / eco friendly foods (yay) there was absolutely zero broad market demand for vegan foods - so you only got vegan food from small vegan-run companies, who while very well meaning lacked the resources to make food that wasn't an abomination like the disgusting slimy mess that is tofurkey.
With the rise of the internet and global cultural exchange and etc, there's widespread ability for vegans to work collaboratively on improving the quality of the food / find dishes that are both delecious and incidentally also vegan (ex: chana masala). I've even had some gluten free baked goods that dont take like chickpeas and sand!
(Rant:) Not that gluten intolerances are real outside of coeliacs, but its a big step forward in niche cookery. Stop claiming to be gluten intolerant, you're not, and by diluting the severity of gluten intolerance you've made it impossible for coeliacs to safely eat at restaurants or trust 'gluten free' processed foods / ingredients.
My mom’s coeliac and has been since the 80s. It’s gone from “salad no croutons” with extra croutons to “gluten free salad served in a bread bowl.” It’s really frustrating.
Basically all vegans in the English speaking parts of the world have eaten meat before.
As Stephen Lynch would say, “Tofurkey? Toe fuck yourself”.
That stuff is not delicious. It is barely edible.
I don't eat meat and haven't for a long time, the last few years I've been vegetarian.
There was a period of time I ate vegan. I still practice some things to this day, trying to eat less processed foods, sourcing things from as humane of a source as possible and that means not just animals, but also people. That's a part of being vegan, if it exploits anything, you avoid it.
It's hard, especially living in a country that has only partially embraced it. You try and live outside that norm, outside of a big city, and sourcing what you want and at a reasonable price is a pain in the ass.
Now to my point, I never felt so much animosity as when I mentioned being vegan. People would ask me what is wrong with me, I would often get lectured on how my perceptions on the meat industry is wrong, and told how I was harming my body by not getting enough protein.
I'm not here to preach my stances.
However, that animosity wasn't just from people with typical diets. What stopped me at first was the reputation vegans had. I didn't want to be associated with that at the time, while I believe things need to change I'm also against shoving my views on someone. Eventually, I met some vegans and they were the opposite of what I heard, I asked about what they do and how they eat, and I tried it.
When I eat with someone new, and I say I'm vegetarian the response is almost always positive, except those who like to try and belittle my manhood because I don't eat meat.
However, what really affected my view towards veganism and why I eventually started saying I eat plant based was because of that scrutiny. People felt so nosy and judgemental. Then I decided maybe I should seek like minded people.
I checked out vegan subreddits, looked for other vegans to meet irl and pretty often when i would mention I'm vegan but I'm against lecturing, I would get the most vile responses. I still remember a time on Reddit that I said exactly that and was harassed by a lot of accounts telling me I was worse for the vegan movement than meat eaters because I wasn't actively pushing my beliefs. So I started to feel isolated, when I would be around some people they would say "oh you're still vegan?" And when I eventually went back to being vegetarian I still sometimes hear "I knew it wouldn't last" or sometimes flamed for the exact kind of view I'm posting now by individuals who may still think I'm a problem.
This is a long winded way of saying, I could have guessed the results of that study and I'm not surprised. I think one of the biggest enemies of the movement is themselves in my experience, and it makes me sad because I really do wish it would catch on more. I wish I didn't sometimes feel like I have to hide my diet, and I wish people wouldn't put so much value on a damn food packaging label.
I think a lot of the problems we have around eating or not eating meat are with identity. You can't just enjoy a vegan meal, or eat less meat. You have to make it your identity: You are a vegan and you swear off all meat products. And you must evangelize or you're not a good vegan.
Conversely, just 12% of the population - mainly males between 50 and 65 - eat half the beef in the country. Why? Because they identify as manly manly men and manly men eat meat. Any suggestion that they eat less, even seeing other men eating less meat, attacks a core part of their identity.
These sorts of identities make it harder for people to change their behavior, and are making it harder to reduce meat consumption to the levels we need.
Why? Because they identify as manly manly men and manly men eat meat. Any suggestion that they eat less, even seeing other men eating less meat, attacks a core part of their identity.
Was that in the study or did you just make that part up?
It's not in the study I linked to, but here's another study that shows this I'm not making it up.
Even ordinary threats to masculinity trigger anxiety. Since the incorporation of meat signals masculinity, it is used to psychologically defend the ego against omnipresent threats to coveted masculine status.
You've established both points independently, but not the correlation between them.
Regarding dietary choices as a personality trait, I feel for you.
Personally, as long as it's not being forced on me, I really don't care what anybody chooses to eat or not eat...but I've definitely seen vegetarian and vegan folks get some harassment for their choices, and I've also certainly seen the reverse, with vegetarian and vegan eaters shaming others who don't do as they do (in many cases, exactly as they do). Hell I've been on the receiving end of it myself.
While two wrongs don't make a right, and I'm sure vegetarians/vegans are on the receiving end of that sort of flak far more often...on the other hand, I think that the percentage of people who give others a hard time about what they're eating is far higher among the vegetarian/vegan community than outside it. That is to say, it appears that the "preachy, holier-than-thou vegetarian/vegan" is a very well-earned/deserved stereotype...as those things go. Even extending, as you've unfortunately had to deal with, to turning their derision on members of their own community. They've also done themselves no favors by making it less a matter of "what you eat" and more a matter of "who you are".
The identity politics of vegetarianism and veganism certainly create a lot more potential for toxicity...and it's unfortunate: I'm sure there are plenty of people who might consider reducing or even eliminating meat from their diets, but the thought of being associated with these groups is enough to keep them content with the status quo.