It does not help that many new vehicles are built like shit and have complexity for the sake of complexity. Electronic door latches, pop-out door handles, having everything controlled via a clunky, outdated, atrocious GUI, etc etc. These problems are not unique to EV's but a lot of EV's are going to have them just because they are brand new vehicles.
this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
102 points (79.7% liked)
World News
39004 readers
3158 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I bet if they made an EV without all that crap it would be crazy reliable.
Yeah I'm sad that the rise of EV's coincides with just how extra cars have become in recent years. If you sold me a mid 90s Honda Civic hatchback with an electric drivetrain, no internet connectivity, no electric door handles or touch screens, I'd be happy with it.
One of my retirement dreams is to build electric remakes of classic cars, complete with authentic exhaust noises
Ford has that crate electric motor that can live in front of a manual transmission
load more comments
(2 replies)
oh man that would be sick! I hope you achieve your dreams.
If you make the exhaust noises a menu option I can turn off or on, I will buy one.
No, you will get a basic, simple switch. No menus. No touchscreens.
Make it a three position switch. On, off, and "make the noises with your mouth"
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(3 replies)
They should be. They're orders of magnitude less complex than ICE vehicles as far the driverrain is concerned.
One thing that I always thought as crazy was the amount of electric and electronic shit these modern EVs have. Bitch, weren't you supposed to save battery for driving? Why are you putting a light show when I'm supposed to be focused on the road?
Eh, something like that probably draws about half a kilowatt, and it would be hard to shed all of that functionality (I think the Mitsubishi i-Miev might, but also reverse cameras are a requirement in cars now so you can't get rid of the screen)
For comparison, my car has about a 65kwh battery. I probably use maybe 20kilowatts when driving, but there are lots of variables there. If my half-kilowatt estimate is reasonably accurate, you can run it alone for about 130 hours.
load more comments
(10 replies)
The pop-put door handles thing gets me. Like why do I need to push one end of the handle in, then pull it the rest of the way out on the opposite end? It's so backwards and convoluted.
Just give me a damn handle I pull out to open the damn door. Why is it so hard?
Flush door handles improve aerodynamics by reducing drag.
That's true, but also dumb at the same time.
The benefit of reduced drag applies regardless of mode of propulsion.
So really, it's complexity for complexity sake.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yeah. I like a nice big touchscreen for infotainment and navigation, but everything else should still be knobs, buttons, and sliders on the dashboard.
load more comments
(1 replies)
As a Subaru driver, nice.
I’m a happy Toyota owner as well.
Just got a 2007 Prius with 150k on it. I'm still getting use to it, but they're supposed to be reliable. More importantly parts are plentiful and fairly cheap.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Same. Owned a Volkswagen previously and seeing the ratings difference makes me glad I changed. I was also affected by the diesel emissions scandal at VW. So, that was fun.
VW requires their mechanics get the least amount of training of any manufacture. I had a VW (pre scandal diesel) and it was very reliable - but only because I did all the work myself. When I took it in I had problems.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
I am interested in the differentiation between Ford/Lincoln, GMC/Chevrolet/Cadillac/Buick, and Dodge/Ram/Chrysler, given that each of those groupings is the same manufacturer. And in GM's case especially they have multiple vehicles under all three marquees that are the same damn car underneath with different badges and trim colors.
Not surprised to see Chrysler at the bottom, though.
What a pile of crap the U.S. auto manufacturers are. They purposefully build cars that break to increase revenue.
It is wrong to see that as a "US car manufacturers" problem. That mistakenly implies that other corporations would not behave this way or that this is anomalous behavior. This is how monopolies behave and it is the end state of any insufficiently regulated market.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Clearly, all those brand new Mercedes-Benz drivers are regretting not opting for the used 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe they could have had. Live and learn…
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(30 replies)
Two of the larger EV companies are new and I think both have quality control issues. I suspect that is probably the bulk of the gap. Im willing to bet that Hyundai Ioniq 5 has far fewer reliability problems than a Rivian.
Also, every Chevy Bolt ever built had a recall a couple years ago. That dragged that car's reliability score through the mud and wouldn't surprise me if it had an impact here too.
Hyundai as a whole probably have less issues than most. That 7 year warranty is something they don't want to be back at the shop for.
I wish they'd link to the actual study so we can see how they determine "reliability".
They don't get very granular, but they give a fairly detailed overview of the methodology here:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/
Edit: I used to subscribe, and as a result received their surveys occasionally. They seemed pretty well done, but people are people and probably aren't always objective in their reporting.
Yeah I saw that but again it's very basic explanations...
We study 20 trouble areas, from nuisances—such as squeaky brakes and broken interior trim—to major bummers, such as potentially expensive out-of-warranty engine, transmission, EV battery, and EV charging problems. We use that information to give reliability ratings for every major mainstream model.
Where are they getting that information and how are they using it? This is important and their conclusion is incredibly counter-intuitive and refutes pretty much all other research I've seen.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
load more comments
(1 replies)
The same Consumer Reports that got sued for overstating the rollover risk of a popular SUV?
I'll take their opinions on EV's with a grain of salt.
Gotta love how they don't state what the most reliable EV is, even in the Consumer Reports original article. I guess you have to pay for that info.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Ok even if the statistic isn't wildly misleading. It's not such a bad thing. How long have we been doing gas cars? How long have we been doing ev's? How does the scale of the two match up.
Tons of resources have gone into the reliability of gas cars. EV's do not have the same amount of time and resources pooled to it. It's not a fatal flaw of the concept.
The internal combustion engine has been innovated and improved over a 100+ years. We've had plenty of time to experiment with changes and make it incredibly efficient while also addressing reliability issues caused by the engine itself. Not to mention, reliability issues are the sort of thing you find over long term use of a product, and we're only just getting to the point where EVs have been around for long enough.
load more comments
(1 replies)
This is the best summary I could come up with:
CR is known for buying cars for its own test fleet, but for its annual auto reliability survey, the organization cast a wider net.
Hybrids have 19 potential trouble areas—all the above minus the charging problem—and EVs have just 12, since they go without things like internal combustion engines, fueling systems, or transmissions.
And as our data has consistently shown, reliability-minded consumers would be best served by forgoing brand new vehicles in their first model year," said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at CR.
Tesla, despite a legion of horror stories, finds itself very middle of the pack in terms of overall reliability, and in general it builds dependable EV powertrains—less so bodywork, paint/trim, and climate systems.
In general, the Asian OEMs dominate the upper end of the reliability chart, although Mini, Porsche, and BMW also made the top 10.
As noted, Tesla placed pretty solidly mid-pack, along with other domestic brands like Buick, Ram, Cadillac, Chevrolet, and Dodge.
The original article contains 896 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 82%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
load more comments
(1 replies)
Not only EV's, hybrid cars too!
Well that makes sense since hybrid cards have all the guts of EVs AND gas cars. More things that can break.
EVs alone have far fewer parts than can break than gas cars, and there are no explosions taking place inside EVs, so you might think they’d be simpler and more reliable.
view more: next ›