this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
424 points (98.8% liked)

World News

39011 readers
2796 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
all 35 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Since EVs are heavy, should be based on dimensions.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Depends on what the goal is. Heavy vehicles do disproportionately more damage to the infrastructure.

They might want to encourage smaller, lighter cars, regardless of type. They certainly make small city EVs, as well as just encouraging walking, biking, public transportation, etc.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

Everything which is related to the common space should be charged or even limited by their impact in the common space.

SUV's are bigger so use more space, are almost twice as likely to kill a pedestrian in a collision than other cars, interfere with the ability of other road users to spot danger sooner (because people in normal cars behind a SUV often are in a position too low to see the road beyond the SUV through its windows) and because of being heavier and less aerodinamically efficient consume more hence polute more (even the electric ones indirectly polute more because not all electricity is generated from renewals).

So it makes sense that SUVs get hit by significantly higher charges related to their impact in the common space or even limited in some places because they're much more dangerous to pedestrians and negativelly impact the safety of other road users.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I understand something like a GMC Suburban or a Cadillac Escalade, but the Porsche Macan (in article thumbnail) and many other compact SUVs take up the same curb space and about the same weight and length as a standard sedan.

  • Porsche Macan (SUV): 4400lbs, 186.1"
  • Honda CRV (SUV): 3285lbs, 184.8"
  • Audi A4 (sedan): 3700lbs, 187.5"
  • Pegeout 508 (sedan): 3290lbs, 187"

vs

  • Cadillac Escalade (SUV): 6200lbs, 211"
  • Range Rover (SUV): 6025lbs, 207"

Unless they put weighted meters at every parking space, would be interesting to see how they enforce this. Compact-SUVs are useful and are well equipped for their weight (AWD, safety features, space-efficient).

Here is a cool chart showing weight vs road wear. Not sure how scientific it is, but shows cars around 4000lbs are considered normal wear.

Unless the goal is to move drivers to the subcompact-sedan form factor.

  • Mini Cooper: 3144lbs, 159.1"
  • Citreon C3: 2226lbs, 156.7"

Then they could make low cost parking spaces ~170" long and any cars that do not fit in that would have to go in the bigger spaces with a higher rate. Very curious how they would implement it without costing the tax payer too much.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Chart seems about right, road wear scales to the 4th power of weight per axle.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Which makes the Range Rover about 40x the road wear of the Citroen C3.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


PARIS, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Paris aims to drive large sports utility vehicles (SUVs) out of its centre by hiking parking fees for heavy cars in the French capital, and it plans a citizens' vote on the proposal early next year.

After banning rental scooters in September in the wake of a citizen's vote, Paris will hold a local referendum on Feb. 4 about "the place of SUVs in the capital".

"We need to reduce the number and the size of cars in the city, that is why we will submit to a vote the question of how much space there should be for this type of vehicle in Paris," Deputy Mayor David Belliard, an ecologist, told Reuters.

Under Mayor Anne Hidalgo, Paris has for years raised pressure on drivers by increasing parking costs and gradually banning diesel vehicles, while boosting the bicycle lane network in the congested capital.

In a few years, in a few months, they won't be welcome in Paris with this type of behaviour," Belliard said.

He said Paris also wanted car manufacturers to stop building this type of vehicle because they were too expensive, too polluting and unsuitable for cramped city centres.


The original article contains 356 words, the summary contains 197 words. Saved 45%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Good. Too bad it will never happen in the US. I'm sick and tired of these shitboxes that destroy visibility and kill people, always being operated by someone clueless (and usually single occupancy).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I dont expect parking fees to affect people who already buyva car that is not economically viable. It hits where it does not hurt.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

Here's the thing: people don't make decision based on cost, but on what they feel what the cost is. For example: there are studies showing people underestimate the cost of car ownership by a factor of 2. They typically forget about the loss in value and the repair costs. Parking fees (if taken per occasion) are cost that people actually feel every day, making it more likely that they factor into their decision, maybe even more so than fuel costs.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

They should drive out large cars before heavy cars.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I hope they don't come up with a superlight suv to defeat this. mostly because it would likely turn over easily.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Cars are already as light as they can reasonably be unless you get into something hyper specialized. And then you just have a tin can with wheels.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Unless they go full carbon fiber and titanium just as a middle finger to the weight tax/fee lol

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

You could do something like this velomobile at under 350kg (750lb).