The first cultivated meat is approved for sale in the US : news

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Looks like only available in one restaurant for now, but it's a start.

"For one thing, cultivated meat is not vegan or vegetarian." -> I know some vegans who would disagree with that, on the grounds that no animal cruelty or slaughter is involved. I suspect there will be a fair bit of debate on this as cultivated meat becomes more widespread. I would guess just like we've already got "I'm a vegetarian who eats fish" we'll end up with "I'm a vegan who does/doesn't eat cultivated meat."

You might want to cross-post this to !food too.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I know some vegans who would disagree with that

I definitely would!

Usually, the reason people go vegan is to try to reduce (hopefully eliminate) animal suffering, and/or to reduce green house gas emissions from animal farming.

Cultivated meat deals with the first, and, depending on how it's produced, can probably entirely avoid the second as well.

I don't know the process in detail, but I would also imagine that cultivated meat is no more sourced from animals than a plant that was fertilized with animal dung, and that would still be considered vegan.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

There are some analyses out there that suggest cultivated meat will actually be worse for the climate than animals - for example https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/lab-grown-meat-carbon-footprint-worse-beef

Of course the cultivated meat startups disagree: https://www.npr.org/2022/11/21/1138371310/a-taste-of-lab-grown-meat

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I was going to say, all the articles and science I saw on lab meat previously had it consuming far, far less resources than the traditional beef industry. Definitely going to read more about it but I'm still team lab meat for now.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Even if cultivated meat was initially bad for the environment, I'd guess that it would be easy to minimize it's environmental impact versus traditional meat. There's only so much you can do to stop cows from belching CO2. However, a factory making vats of cultured meat could install pollution controls to reduce their emissions.

I'd definitely like to see peer reviewed studies backing everything up, but my guess is that cultivated meat will on par with or be better for the environment than traditional meat and will only get better.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Yeah so far it seems to be battling experts. UC Davis is a big agriculture/animal science school. On the other hand I don't trust the lab meat industry's own experts either. Hoping at some point to see a credible neutral analysis.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I've read it, and there's already two issues:

Not peer reviewed, so more margin of error
It says that it will only be worse if the stuff needed to make lab grown meat is purified at pharmaceutical levels; if the stuff is food grade then the claim begins falls apart.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I think it's odd to even compare. One is a brand new industry, the other is a hundreds of year old process in terms of learning how to make it efficient. Over time, I have no doubt lab-grown can out-carbon footprint actual cattle raising.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was an interesting read, thanks for the link!

But yeah, I had no idea it was so much worse for the environment. But it seems there's still the possibility it will be better one day, so I hope for the best. I guess in the meantime I'll stick with plant-based foods.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not vegan, but I do keep Kosher and I'm sure there would be a huge debate in the Jewish community as to whether cultured meat was kosher.

Assuming that the animal that the original cells were taken from was Kosher (e.g. a chicken or a cow, not a pig), then would the cultured meat be Kosher? Would it not need to follow usual processes (specific slaughter techniques, salting and soaking the meat to remove blood, etc) if there was no animal/blood?

As cultured meat takes hold, there are going to be a lot of communities trying to take it into account. I'm sure there will be plenty of arguments as to the status of it as well. It should be interesting.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Looks like it's already under discussion (not surprising given that some of the cultured meat companies are in Israel: https://time.com/6251154/lab-grown-meat-kosher-israel-rabbi/ https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2293219/jewish/Is-Lab-Grown-Meat-Kosher.htm

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

This is a fascinating issue, though it looks like from that article that there is no consensus. I think I'd side on it being kosher and pareve though as Rabbi Lau asserts in that article. The root principle of kosher laws is food safety and kindness to animals (however misguided that is given the we now know schechting an animal is actually horrifically cruel to it). Moreover, the rule against mixing meat and dairy derives from the prohibition on boiling a calf in its mother's milk. Cultivated meat is the least cruel method of acquiring meat obviously and it has no mother, so kosher and pareve in my book.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I know at least one person that has preemptively rejected cultivated meat because it requires the death of an animal.

Even though they know that a single animal's death could then spare uncountable billions of future animals.

... does that make the chicken sampled for cultivation Chicken Jesus?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you're going to start rejecting things because even one animal died in the process of making them, you'd have to say goodbye to much of modern medicine too.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would argue at some point they would need to reject modern living as a whole. Go build an A frame in the woods. Forage for berries and shit. Many aspects of the ways we live cause deaths. Like cars hitting animals. So if a single animal is too much, I have a feeling they should really be following that mindset.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If the vegan is there for ethics then cultivated meat should be all good. More ethical than cheese or leather anyway.

Maybe some will complain about the source of the starter cells or something.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, there ain't much to complain except for health. After all, vegan isn't a diet, it is an ideology and if meat was the only healthy option, then it would be vegan to sometimes eat animal products and use products that caused harm to animal. In fact, I doubt there is such a thing as a totally vegan as the world is quite harsh. Because veganism is about minimising harm. Anyway, back to the diet, vegans generally believe that meat isn't a necessity for humans thus making this lab meat potentialy unhealthy (according to that belief).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Health wise there really isn't a big advantage to being vegan, vegetarian, or a meat eater. People can have healthy or unhealthy diets regardless of particular restrictions. In the past there wasn't a lot of vegan junk food or options so vegans kinda had to be healthy on accident. Now days you can get just as messed up on vegan food. As an example oreos are vegan but no one is going to argue they're a healthy meal.

A complete protein is important but a little more complex to get without meat or dairy. Right now the cheapest protein sources are chicken or protein powder derived from milk (whey). Vegan options are kinda pricey for powder and whole foods would be kinda a pain if you want a higher protein diet. I wonder if they could do "lab grown" complete protein powder cheap.

Arguably the lab grown meat could be more efficient than growing a whole chicken. And a lot of people simply won't give up meat.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

It’s pretty typical for a new product’s development to be inefficient until the processes are scaled, I wouldn’t read into it too much at the moment. Process improvements are happening at a ridiculously quick rate in this field; we’re talking on a weekly to monthly basis.

Keep in mind, too, that animal ag has a lot more money behind it than these folks, and similar to the oil companies they’re going to be spending buckets to slow the transition.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is awesome! I had no idea lab grown meat was so close to being viable. I currently eat meat (with some guilt), and I can't wait to get to the point where I can eat more ethically

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

agreed, regardless of whether or not it's ethical to raise animals for meat, the way we currently do it is an eldritch abomination where "cage free" chicken are kept so tightly packed they will peck each other to death unless debeaked, and where "cut from neighbors knife" is a common injury report at slaughterhouses.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah I've been about 50/50 with plant based beef and chicken. I'm extremely excited for this. Might be the final nail in the coffin for Big Meat

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Great news. I think we're still not quite there yet with cultivated meat, but it has great promise. Cultivated meat has the potential to be cheaper, far more environmentally friendly, obviously more ethical, and maybe even healthier. I hope it reaches full scale production with all these benefits in my lifetime.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hopefully, while not being harmful.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I can’t imagine it would be worse than traditional meat - no antibiotics, bits of bone, disease, etc. Bacterial contamination is the only concern I can think of, but that affects every category of food.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I can’t imagine it would be worse than traditional meat - no antibiotics, bits of bone, disease, etc. Bacterial contamination is the only concern I can think of, but that affects every category of food.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

as an omnivore dating a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat for ethical reasons i am so, so excited!!!!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I am very curious what price they can get this to. If traditional chicken breast is $11 a pound and this is $20, it’s going to be rough. If it’s around the same or cheaper, it could do very well!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I'm sure that it will initially cost a premium, before coming down in price as the technology matures. I'm also curious about the relative environmental impact that cultivated meat has versus raising livestock.

ETA: I found a study regarding cultured meat's environmental impact: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es200130u

According to this study, cultured meat is 7-45% more energy efficient, emits 78-96% less CO2, requires 82-96% less water, and occupies 99% less land than raising livestock.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

for fast-food purposes, the plant-based meats (Impossible, Beyond Meat) were generally able to get in the door at parity with ordinary meat from what i can tell. i'm not sure about in-grocery-store, though. they've also been racked by waning consumer interest, probably because they seem "faddish" for lack of better wording. that, i honestly think, is the biggest hurdle to cultivated meat--not price.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I buy Beyond Meat bricks for $8.99 a pound. That's pricey compared to regular beef, but I'm an outlier with pricing. I keep kosher at home and kosher meat is VERY expensive. Between the price and hassle (it requires separate pots/pans, plates, utensils, etc), I keep vegetarian at home. It's just cheaper and easier.

Beyond Meat lets me cook "beef" dishes for less than kosher beef would cost me and with more flexibility. (Tonight, we had pasta and Beyond Beef meatballs with cheese - a dish I couldn't make using kosher meat.)

There's still a market for products like Beyond Beef, but I agree that they'll need to hit "normal need" price levels before it really takes off.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

So they say the meat is 99% chicken cell, does anyone know what the 1% is? I'd just feel better knowing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Typically that's more of a CYA move. If someone finds something that isn't chicken cell they could sue for false advertising, but if it's 100% chicken cell nobody can sue for saying it was 99%.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I was digging into this question and only found that it might be leftovers of whatever they feed the cells (which also no longer includes anything from live or harvested animals, which is cool). CYA covers that and so much more so I think you're right.

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[+] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

This is super exciting! Been waiting a long time for this

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I'm very interested to learn what combination of cells they used to hit certain flavors and how they developed the right network of cells to make the right texture. Is there a 'grain'? Will there be dark meat and white meat? So many questions! Can't wait to see if they end up making pulled pork down the road, haha.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

This is a huge a step forward!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I get this is positive, but it saddens me to hear people comment now I can start eating more ethically. There have always been vegan options available. They have been there this whole time, this is merely another option out there, the majority of people will still prefer the "real thing".

The only victim the in the situation is the Animals, their gauntlet of suffering from our hands must come to an end.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

This is amazing! I can not wait to eat more ethically.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

OMG OMG OMG!!! I've been waiting for this for decades!!! I love animals, but i wasn't able to give up meat, so this is exactly what I've been hoping for!!! I've tried the plant based fake meats like Beyond and Impossible, but they don't even come close to the real thing. My body craves real meat, but my mind hates all suffering, so perfect cultivated meat is my dream!

Please please please i hope this tastes exactly like the real thing!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's cool! If I saw this in my supermarket I'd def try it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can't wait until this is in grocery stores!

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

What's the number of its carbon footprint?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Last time i checked in on cultivated meat, it seemed like collecting fetal bovine serum required them to do a lot of slaughtering, which kind of defeats the point. Have there been any advancements in that area?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

~~This is my question too.~~

If this and this are to be believed, it might be bovine serum-free. Looks like they may not be the only ones who've done it either.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Well if that's true then this is fantastic news!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://twitter.com/elliotswartz/status/1483433664616669184?s=21

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Really interesting, thank you!

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