this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 174 points 11 months ago (25 children)
  1. I don't intend to victim blame or defend any abusers here; this shit is vile and should not be tolerated, period.

  2. From the below, it sounds like it was determined that, despite Omegle's moderation efforts, Omegle could have done better in areas relating to age verification and matchmaking. So I'm not trying to defend or minimize Omegle's role either, I don't know the details of how the site worked but it sounds like this was a problem for a long time:

the judge in A.M.’s case found last July that Omegle’s design was at fault and it was not protected by Section 230: It could have worked to prevent matches between minors and adults before sexual content was even sent, the judge said.

  1. However, I really don't like the choice of phrasing "forced", and I wonder whether that's poor paraphrasing or actually taken from the lawsuit.

Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

Again, to be clear, not trying to say that the victim should, or even could, have done anything differently. Victim blaming is bad. But how the hell are they saying "forced" to do something by some scumbag over the internet? What kind of conditions does a kid have to be in at home to feel like they can't turn to their parent/guardian for help in a terrifying situation like that? How is an 11-year-old in 2014 being allowed to get into that situation in the first place, between her parents and her school?

It seems like this victim was failed by every support system she should have been able to rely on. This is so messed up. This is exactly why we need things like sex education and Internet safety education.

[–] [email protected] 73 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This is a failure of parenting. WTF is an 11 year old doing on Omegle?

[–] [email protected] 90 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (33 children)

It just isn’t that simple. I’ve got four kids. At least one of them ended up watching a naked man on Omegle once. And I say this because they were in a group of friends and dared each other on, on a school trip, and they were discovered (one of them felt pretty shocked and told a teacher) and we had a big discussion with her.

Kids do dumb shit all the time. Omegle is (was) very much known about amongst them all.

So, even with careful parenting and a locked down internet, and policies not to have phones upstairs in your room, kids do dumb shit or find a new service that isn’t in your filter, because they’ve heard about it through their friends. I know because my wife and I carefully raise four kids and the internet is a fucking onslaught to a dopamine dependent, approval seeking teenager.

I’m not saying “it’s all Omegle’s fault”. Everyone had a role to play. But let’s not pretend Omegle was blameless.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You can parent your children all day long and everything is just fine at home. As soon as your kids are unleashed into the world of school, it's anything goes. Your child is immediately subjected to all the poor and awful parenting that is outside your control. The only thing you can do is give them skills to navigate those situations. Sounds like @[email protected] did just that. Bravo.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But how the hell are they saying “forced” to do something by some scumbag over the internet?

There was a group from Brazil doing stuff like that and got publicized when they were arrested recently. Usually they'd coerce the minor into sending one picture, then use it as blackmail against them to give them more. They might even gaslight them to convince them that they'll get in big trouble if they tell anyone and it'll just get worse for them.

I've seen full fledged adults taken hard by scammers and willingly giving them thousands of dollars against their own interests, and they heavily distrust and resist anyone trying to help them. I can only imagine accomplishing that with a child that lacks long term thinking skills is even more effective.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

children are incredibly easy to influence. "if you don't do it I will find where you live and harm your family, and do not call the cops/tell your parents" is often enough threat.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What kind of conditions does a kid have to be in at home to feel like they can't turn to their parent/guardian for help in a terrifying situation like that?

Or… close the tab?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Or click unmatch

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[–] [email protected] 109 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Not trying to victim blame here but what kind of idiot parent lets an underage child on the internet unrestricted. Like godam what do u think goes on online.

[–] [email protected] 84 points 11 months ago (7 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

not all of them but most

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (16 children)

what kind of idiot parent lets an underage child on the internet unrestricted

All of them? The only restrictions my parents gave were about the amount of time I spent there and it's the same story with all my friends.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago

Back in the dial up days, my dad installed a switch in the phone socket in his room (which was wired before the phone socket in the computer room) so he could disable the internet at night. I used to sneak in while he was snoring and crawl around the bed to switch it back on.

Point being, there's only so much you can do to prevent kids from accessing things they shouldn't. The right way to parent is to try and direct your kids towards the right things, but also offer age-appropriate yet honest explanations for the things they do find. But it's a difficult balance, as kids get older they deserve more privacy, and it's difficult enough for an individual to stay ahead of the tech curve than to keep your whole family on top of it.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago

Even more than this, if your kid feels pressured by an adult to get naked for them, and doesn't immediately tell you, then I believe you have utterly failed as a parent.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

what kind of idiot parent lets an underage child on the internet unrestricted.

I'm 35, and I have been online pretty much unrestricted since I'm 11/12ish. But yes, I saw some shits.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm a few years older than you, and when we were kids our parents didn't understand what the internet is and what the implications were.

Parents today don't have the luxury of claiming ignorance. The vast majority of people understand that the internet is full of dangers for kids (and everyone really).

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 11 months ago (10 children)

When do the alcoholics get to sue the bars/pubs for "forcing" them to walk through the door and order a drink?

Another good thing falls to the whims of lack of personal responsibility, parenting, and Helen (won't someone think of the children?!) Lovejoy syndrome. Now the predators will just continue to do there thing in a darker hole that is even harder to find.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If a bar is consistently serving alcohol to minors, it deserves consequences.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago

Yeah there's literally laws against it lol. The op analogy sucks.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

If a drunk driver kills someone then the place who served them is sued

That darker hole is discord though, I wrote to them begging them to shut down their public server/community finder

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

If a drunk driver kills someone then the place who served them is sued

Personally I think this is crazy, and totally without merit.

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 11 months ago (4 children)

In 2022, there were 608,601 reports of child exploitation on Omegle to the nonprofit National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s CyberTipline. Of all the sites the center tracked, only Facebook, Google, Instagram, and WhatsApp ranked higher.

That's a crazy high number. Especially for a live content platform which I assume can only ever have individual reports of live interactions?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Of all the sites the center tracked, only Facebook, Google, Instagram, and WhatsApp ranked higher.

If there are four that are worse, "only" seems out of place on that sentence.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

I was surprised by that too. It also minimizes the sheer amount of users on those platforms. We're talking billions of people if not nearly every single person in the world.

How many daily users did Omegle have?

This site says 3.35 million daily active users.

I guess having so many fewer users made Omegle a bigger problem, proportionally.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Parents fault, not the site.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

I have a fundamental question about this case: was he there physically with her? Coercion is one thing, but the word "force" implies he was somehow in control. I am in no way defending him, but it reeks terribly of the "look what you made me do" vibe and I feel somewhat uneasy about how this played out.

Omegle was a piece of the internet I never partook in. It never appealed to me to talk with random internet people. Perhaps I don't understand why he had power over her.

Edit: thanks, I everyone. I get it from a subjective position.

[–] [email protected] 82 points 11 months ago

Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

Not all methods of force are physical. This was an adult talking to an 11 year old. 11 year olds have in many cases not had enough life experience to understand that there are adults that will manipulate them in this way. It’s possible he got her to do things and then blackmailed her for more. Regardless of how he did it, he was an adult and she was an 11 year old child. Not acceptable no matter the circumstance.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Perhaps I don't understand why he had power over her.

One can have leverage over another person by threatening to harm oneself or someone else.

There's been many cases in omegle of people threatening "show me your boobs or I'll kill this pet". If the victim complies, the agressor may continue through blackmailing.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (22 children)

I can only assume but the first few pictures where probably coerced and after wards she was threatened to send more or he would release them. That definitely counts as forced. She was only 11 and this thing went on for 3 years. It's definitely not just "look what you made me do".

You can force someone to do something without being physically present.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

He somehow got her to get started and then threatened her, saying that she was now complicit in making illegal porn and would get in trouble.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

I'm honestly surprised it took this long

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago
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