honestly really tired of seeing these stupid “analysis” articles. people are not having kids because we don’t have the stability that generations before us had. this is not even uncommon, EVERY species needs to have stability to breed. you can’t put two people in a fucking house and say “ok have a kid” when those 2 people are paying some fucking landleach 4000/month for a 1 bedroom apartment, spending the other 200 dollars on whatever garbage food they can find, and then not afford anything else. who the fuck would be thinking “wow I should have more responsibility right now” ??????
this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Money. Every fucking answer to every fucking question is money.
"MoNeY cAn'T bUy HaPpInEsS"
It sure as fuck can buy some sense of safety to focus on "wants", like children. The wealthy want the labor force to be born, yet are doing everything they can to suck them dry of every financial well-being they try to get. Then they got the gall to write these wedge pieces blaming a generation for not doing some fucking survival gymnastics to fulfill their gloom and doom future!
Sounds like the author is grumpy that they don't have grandkids...
"Survival gymnastics" is the perfect description.
I mean, same for me. I keep joking that I'm too selfish to have kids, but the reality is I'm not so rich I can afford to have enough help to still live my lifestyle.
/thread
Pretty much. I have kids and we only made that choice when our finances were in reasonable shape. We'd have never made the choice to have them, if we didn't think we could afford them. Because ya, kids are expensive.
Not having kids if you can’t even support yourself properly.
Maybe we should redistribute some of that 1% wealth.
I am supporting myself fine and I don't want kids because I'd have to sacrifice the quality of life I'm living now. I couldn't maintain my current quality of life financially with a kid even if time weren't an issue.
This is the other thing. Not every millennial is scraping by, and many simply enjoy their current standard of living.
I have kids of my own, and I love them, but they're a lot of fucking work and expense, and the trajectory of your life is irreversibly changed. Kids aren't some magical "make life better" toy that exist for our amusement, like some people seem to think.
Instead of trickle down, we should have piñata economics
- birth control
- economic insecurity
- extremely high cost of living
- no social network to help with childcare
- economic opportunities during child bearing years delay pregencies
So if someone is going to have 11 kids (both my grandmothers actually) they need to get started early, hit the ground running. If, however, do to the above a couple gets started in their late thirties then few children will happen.
I just had this conversation with my SO today. And I said that knowing her parents are going to be close alleviates a bit of the anxiety around having kids. Not because I need their guidance, but to give me a break that I will need to have.
Kids are cute but if you haven't thought about how your precious baby is gonna afford rent in 18 years which will probably be like $5K/mo for a sleep pod, then you're a sadistic asshole.
I feel absolute dread every time I see a small kid or a pregnant woman. That kid doesn't deserve the shithole they're getting into.
I'm not sure it will get that bad. Although, after accounting for inflation, you may not be far off on the price of such a "palace".
I strongly suspect that we are at the start of a "rebalancing" here in the US. We are starting to see it in the labor market. Fewer people seem to be heading for degrees that aren't paying and are opting instead for the trades. Which, while good for them, the nation and the states, is going to kinda suck for me in a few years as the job market I'm in becomes more and more saturated and I get older and older.
“If I don’t do everything right, then my kid will end up living on my couch forever or be a serial killer. … I don’t know if or when I’ll have what it takes to be a ‘good’ parent."
These are pretty much the words I've heard spoken. Especially when there's a lack of a support system / a support system you trust to help raise the kid right. The fear of permanently screwing up some poor soul is real.
I think stability is a pretty big factor too. It's not just owning a house and having a job that pays the bills. It's about being in a place where you feel able to really give the kid everything they will need, emotionally and monetarily, in the long term. If one can't count on a job to see the humanity in people, or even pay a living wage, how can they trust that their employer won't let them go if their "metrics" go to crap, or that they wont just drive them insane. It's nice to think you can leave the baggage at the door, but I've definitely been employed at places that have permanently changed me as a person, and not for the better.
Obviously, everyone has their own reasons for not wanting a child, but, at its core, it's our screwed up society and what it demands from us, with so little of a return.
My husband and I had two kids because we (1) both have union jobs with decent worklife balance, and (2) had high quality yet reasonably priced daycare in our neighborhood. (It still cost us more than our mortgage when both were in daycare.) If we didn't have that we'd have only one kid and still make some pretty big sacrifices (we both really wanted kids). I truly don't know how other people do it without kind, generous family members nearby or very high paying jobs. ETA: We know A LOT of families with only one kid.
I've moved to a small city—like a town, really—where everyone my age has kids. It's weird. They're all miserable and broke, but it seems to be the thing you're supposed to do here, so they all do it.
It's so unusual to go to the pub after work and everyone my age leaves before sunset and the only ones sticking around are in their 20s.
Where I used to live, people would arrive at the pub at 8 because they were watching a friend's afternoon gig, at the climbing gym, or catching up with other friends first. Then at like 10, we start calling it in because it's a Thursday, so after waking up at 8:00, you got an hour to shower, eat, and get into the office.
Here, they're up at 5 to get ready, then get the kids ready, then drop them to school, them work all day to pay for it all, then leave early to pick up the kids, take them to after school events, help them with school work, cook them dinner, and go to bed at 9 exhausted and anxious, arguing who's turn it is to call the boss to say they have to be in late because they have to take the kids to school, then work extra hard to make up for it so that second full-time income doesn't disappear.
I feel like I don't belong here simply because I'm aware of the reality I'm in and the little life I normally get each day is too precious for so many reasons. It's so weird that people understood this in my much bigger city, but not here
Influence of societal cultures, eh. Whattaya do? Certainly not bring a kid into this miserable world while becoming miserable and attempting to raise it. Too many of my generation had that and I'm not goi
I think under earlier circumstances, I'd have made an excellent parent. But my awareness of that is the irony of why I, despite wanting to, should not have a kid. I can't raise a human responsibly when in a world I struggle to deal with myself. It'd be thinking purely selfishly and I'm sure they'd suffer for it. There are stronger people out there than me and I admire them for it, but I'm not willing to risk myself and another human to find out if this engine at 90% capacity has another secret gear.
I do not have the same experiences you have, but your considerations are one for one the ones I make. I'm not putting someone else in this mess if I can help it.
I have two questions:
- How old are you?
- What do your friends with kids say about why they have a kid?
I think you may be projecting your own expectations onto others. I'm one of those folks in a small town, with kids. And yes, it absolutely does add to the daily workload. It is also incredibly rewarding and has gotten more so as the kids get older. In my opinion, having kids is a very expensive exercise in delayed gratification. The first few years will be rough. But, there are the small moments along the way which just make all that effort so very worth it.
It’s so unusual to go to the pub after work and everyone my age leaves before sunset and the only ones sticking around are in their 20s.
Where I used to live, people would arrive at the pub at 8 because they were watching a friend’s afternoon gig, at the climbing gym, or catching up with other friends first.
Here, they’re up at 5 to get ready, then get the kids ready...
This sort of thing is down to personal preferences and shifting priorities. When I was younger, childless and single, I would have enjoyed the more social atmosphere. As I have gotten older, married and had kids, my priorities and wants have shifted. The idea of hanging out at a pub with strangers for hours, drinking my paycheck away has lost any appeal. It's not a matter of not being able to, I actually go to a climbing gym several times a week. But, I go to climb, not to socialize. Sure, I talk with others, but it's not my focus while I am there. It's just that I don't want that sort of lifestyle. I'd rather be at home, playing games with the family or engaging in my own hobbies. Let the young bucks have the pub, I have "better things" to do with my time. And, I suspect you're the other side of that coin, you likely see the time out socializing as the "better things". Far from being "miserable and broke", I'm actually really happy with my life and in a good place financially.
I feel like I don’t belong here simply because I’m aware of the reality I’m in and the little life I normally get each day is too precious for so many reasons. It’s so weird that people understood this in my much bigger city, but not here
You probably don't belong there. You are in a different mental place from the folks living around you with different priorities. It's not a matter of people "failing to understand" anything, it's that you are failing to consider the situation from their perspective. You'd rather feel smug and superior to others; so, you project your own views on to them and declare their lives somehow "wrong" or "bad". In fairness, they are probably judging you too. No doubt you are facing many people claiming that "you'll change your mind later" or other such drivel. If want you really want is the fast paced social life, a small town is probably not the best choice for a home.
I think under earlier circumstances, I’d have made an excellent parent.
Maybe, maybe not. The article touches on this, but I think it's important that it's explicit. One of the important things for having kids is wanting to have kids. It will change your life drastically. If you aren't ready for that, you will be miserable. If you're miserable and blame your children for that misery, you are going to make their lives miserable. I remember hearing the phrase "oh, you're never really ready for kids" so many times before I had kids. And yes, it's sorta true. However, it's also really, really bad advice. Kids will change your life (and you) in so many ways that it's impossible to explain fully and to be fully prepared for. They will also do things that you just don't have the mental framework to deal with; but, you slap it together really fast, because you have no other choice. "oh look at the cute baby in a onesie...wait, is that onesie also full of runny baby shit?! Why is it green, and what are those odd chunks? The fuck do I do now?" At the same time, you need to be in a stable personal and financial situation before you consider kids. If your personal life or financial situation is already unstable, kids are NOT going to help with that. You can be "ready" for kids, in that you have a stable life, but they will absolutely throw you a shit, piss and puke covered curveball now and again.
There are stronger people out there than me and I admire them for it, but I’m not willing to risk myself and another human to find out if this engine at 90% capacity has another secret gear.
Na, they're nothing special. Humans are amazingly resilient, we can adapt to just about anything. I'm willing to bet you would too, if that was what you wanted. That you don't is just fine and it's nice we live in a society where you are free to make that choice and have to tools to do so, without having to give up sex. But, also keep in mind that this is (for many) the life they picked. And they are likely happy overall. Maybe spend less time judging them and more time trying to understand life from their perspective, you might learn a bit about yourself along the way as well.
I'm a millennial with a child and I'm so happy. The company you keep just seems dumb. They sound like people that can't make choices for themselves. You can absolutely plan having a child if you want one and still be happy. We live in a tiny two bedroom apartment and it's fine.
The article lays out key reasons why imo, like access to knowledge and birth control. We didn't really get much for sex ed, but a few years later we could ask about it in the Internet when the teacher wasn't looking in the computer lab.
As someone else asked, the better question is why are we still asking this question? We should be acting on what is now 20 years of data!!!
Millennial here. Not going to read the article. Just going to tell everyone why I don't have children.
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My partner and I both work. We simply cannot afford to lose 50% of our pay, we barely scrape by as it is.
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We don't have a permanent home to raise a child in. Housing is outrageous, and every place we rent from jacks the price up 20 to 30% every year if you are not a new resident, so we move every year.
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Until very recently, any pregnancy complications would have long term consequences to my partner's health, or could possibly take their life. Without access to medical care and reproductive rights, I simply refuse to compromise their safety in that way.
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There are already thousands of children in the foster home and adoption systems, who desperately need love, support and stability. It seems unreasonably selfish to bring another person in to this world when so many are already suffering and in need.
Another millennial adding on:
- Bringing a sentient life into a world of suffering and climate change that will only worsen seems malicious to that life, at this point.
- My partner really doesn't want to go through the body changes that come with pregnancy.
Additional emphasis on #3, even if it didn't compromise safety, a healthy pregnancy is expensive! Healthcare from any complications is financially devastating.
Small aside that adoption is not off the table for us, but we're not financially comfortable to get a dog yet, which we've been saving for for a few years. One of us would need to get a huge raise to be able to afford the costs of adoption and raising of a human child.
Money
As a Gen x mother to 2 millennial who do nit want children(my son got a vasectomy in fact.) I'd love grandchildren. However, I would NEVER force, coerce, torture or tease ANYONE to have a baby. There are little one who need (extra) grandparents. Find some. Volunteer with kids. It's fun. And your children won't resent you. For that at least.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Every two years, the Census Bureau quietly appends a battery of fertility-related questions to its workhorse monthly questionnaire, the Current Population Survey, our go-to source for everything from the unemployment rate to Americans’ moving habits.
Hammered by the Great Recession, soaring student debt, precarious gig employment, skyrocketing home prices and the covid-19 crisis, millennials probably faced more economic headwinds in their childbearing years than any other generation.
And, unlike previous generations, millennials had the means to delay pregnancy thanks to affordable, long-acting birth-control options, said Alison Gemmill, a demographer at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
If women are able to follow through on their delayed family plans, much of the rise in childlessness could be erased, according to a 2020 analysis of the same data set by Gemmill and Caroline Sten Hartnett of the University of South Carolina.
These days, when the outlook may be even bleaker, there’s intense pressure to pump your kids up with every available ounce of organic superfood, superior schooling and extracurricular enrichment to give them a slim shot at getting ahead.
So the decision to avoid having children may amount to a kind of performance anxiety in the face of intense expectations and weak governmental and social support, Guzzo said: “If I don’t do everything right, then my kid will end up living on my couch forever or be a serial killer.
The original article contains 1,779 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 87%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Where's that de-clickbait headline bot
Just asking, but how would you have titled it?
The article's title wasn't misleading. It contained what it said on the tin. Not it's fault that we are slightly more well informed than many others.