this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
128 points (83.7% liked)

Technology

59298 readers
4608 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 33 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

The Majority Report had an excellent interview with this author Brian Merchant who wrote the book "Blood in the Machine" about the luddites. It is quite interesting that luddites were not against technology, they were against the owner class using machines to replace skilled workers with unskilled workers using mechanized systems for lower pay and taking all the profits.

The interview went for nearly an hour but is worth a watch. It starts at the 30 min mark. https://www.youtube.com/live/SOsFm5H_M3w?si=KNxbkNnziDdh0l7V

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are also two rather excellent podcast episodes about luddites and the book, one by 99 percent invisible that discusses more about the concept in general and another by Cautionary Tales that is focused on the luddites and what they did.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/live/SOsFm5H_M3w?si=KNxbkNnziDdh0l7V

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The interviews on The Majority Report are so good and in depth.

I always feel bad when I tune them out while working. I can't help that I do that. Sucks.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Time them out? What does this mean?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I meant "tune". Edited above. Phone autocorrect.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Cool! Thanks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

They probably meant to say tune out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I listen to them at work the night after. I'll be listening to Fridays show tonight.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Alright fine, I'll be a Luddite now. Every time we 'upgrade' or 'make progress' it is really about controling the working class and circumventing a previous business model. Capital pays more and more for the inputs: fuel and technology, in order to justify their control. And then once they have it, they use progress to justify poor labor protections. They never use the predicted best solution, or even a compromise, they use the solution that offers them more power.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don't be a Luddite: be a socialist.

Because the entire problem with luddites is blaming the wrong cause.

Automation of menial labor is the best possible thing that can happen to humanity, and to the humans working those jobs.

Except our system is so fucked that "no job" = "go die on the streets you worthless layabout"

Every job lost to automation should be celebrated by a socialist society, as it means more of us are moving up Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's how I've felt for a long time. What a stupid world we've built where reducing the number of jobs is considered a bad thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

And yet the only thing political parties across nations can agree on is they want more jobs.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can be both, and a lot of us are. A Luddite wouldn't be opposed to the automation of jobs in a socialist society, nobody is being exploited in that case.

We question and oppose the tech right now because that isn't the society we live in. It isn't really about the tech at all, it's about who controls it and how they're using it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Luddites do not offer solutions: Socialists do.

Don't waste effort opposing tech when you could spend effort promoting socialism: You won't oppose tech anymore than the Luddites did (IE with limited initial success followed by absolute annihilation)

Socialists have actually been successful, unlike Luddites.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Absolutely. And I celebrate every act of sabotage, from people putting traffic cones on robotaxis to people shooting down drones flying over their land.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Clickbait title written by a sorry excuse for a journalist. Gregory Barber should go write top 10 lists for Buzzfeed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Buzzfeed would be a step up from Wired.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Although, Marx's critique still stands, in that the Luddites, while they generally correctly noticed the problem that within capitalism new technologies generally serve to further disempower workers and devalue their labor even further, didn't have a shred of an answer. As it turns out, solving problems is more complicated than smashing things that are pissing you off.

Hence why the Luddites are a fondly-remembered image but the march of technology hasn't slowed down literally at all.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except he did have an answer, people just misunderstood it as "smashing things that are pissing you off".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sorry, who are we talking about here? If you're trying to say Marx had more sophisticated answers, true, but I was saying the Luddites didn't have an answer. If the Luddites had a more sophisticated answer, they never acted on it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love technological progress and am no Luddite but the technology that’s most visible to consumers rarely just makes everyone’s lives better. For every truly transformative tech like smartphones, there’s a dozen “disruptions” that just replace some previously functioning part of society with something shittier. (Like phone trees instead of a customer service agent. AirBnB causing rent to rise while breaking zoning laws. Generative A.I. has potential but so far, it’s mostly just automating content farms. Crypto wasn’t a real technological innovation but Silicon Valley VCs pretended it was.)

In a competitive market, even those shitty “innovations” would eventually translate into lower prices but we live in an age of weak enforcement of laws to create and foster competitive markets. Of course there’s a rise in pissed off consumers when all the upside goes to profits/shareholders.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Smartphones disrupted so more industries than they are at risk now because of any new techs, disrupting previously functional parts of the society. They sent home thousands of workers, ruining the life people with previously highly regarded jobs, from retail to bank and finance. Why do you regarded their introduction as "better"? Probably because we were just younger, and you were more open to changes, and when they caused turmoil you didn't felt the consequences.

(I am not against smartphone or technology, just trying to point bias and selective memory)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

AI is dope as well. Still they all have impact on the market.

For sure they were companies relying on the tasks that gps does now to make a living. They most likely had to reinvent the business or die.

This is how market works since forever. Something is introduced, people make money out of it and push other people on the streets. It's an organizational problem, not a technological problem

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

the fact that i was paywalled trying to read this pretty much says all one needs to know about where such a sentiment could be coming from. HMMMMMMMM

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Luddites weren't wrong, their jobs were taken by technology.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

My job was taken by Dave.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Always make me laugh seeing these neo-luddites. They're cute as hell

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago