the_dunk_tank
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this.
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
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What you're arguing is "I know there is an actual meaning used in political discussions, but I have chosen to ignore that in favour of the alternate colloquial meaning that doesn't make sense contextually". Just shut up.
Pedantic redditbrain bullshit
The OP links to r/politics, which like the rest of U.S. mainstream political discussion takes "liberal" to mean "aligned with the Democratic Party." Someone from midwest.social drops in to say "these look like conservatives, not liberals," referencing the same context.
Then a bunch of Hexbear posters trip over themselves to say
"uhh ackshually these are all liberals in the classic sense," a point that adds nothing and that the midwest.social user already knows. Even after that user clarifies they already get this, and are referring to the partisan split in the U.S., people here still have to show how smart and correct they are instead of a simple "ah I see we're on the same page."
This is the way normal people interact with others and will bring the revolution any day now
I guess I don't get what we're doing here if we aren't going to discuss politics the way this site was meant to. If you want to use the pop culture definitions to defend the status quo, I recommend clicking the link, signing up for reddit and turning off your brain.
We're trying to learn and make a difference here.
Agreed -- but education involves stuff like assessing people's current understanding, clearly communicating items that may be new to them, and thinking about how what you're saying is being received. A lot of folks are failing at all three here.
The original post isn't at all clear about how it's defining "liberal" (and the context it links to uses the most common definition in the U.S.). No one recognizes that the person who came in and used that common definition is doing so because of the way it was communicated. Even when that person states they already understand the different definitions, they're met with further detail on a definition they just said they already know, and are firmly told they are wrong, which itself is wrong.
Except they clearly did not understand the "different definitions" and did require further detail on the ACTUAL definition, we do not need to get bogged down in the million-and-one specific personalized and incoherent configurations of liberalism, we instead look at the common characteristics of liberalism as it dwells in Existing Power and how it structures and molds the society we live in
I was describing the Titanic, you want us to describe the specific personnel arrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic, in education an accurate perspective and a sense of scale is critical for full comprehension
The most common definition of liberal in the U.S., by far, is "broadly associated with the Democratic Party." This is the definition used by every mainstream media source, and even throughout much of academica.
It's ridiculous to simply ignore the reality of how people commonly use words.
Again, that has no useful content, it can cover anything from demoralized social liberalism, to ecstatic neoliberalism and every crank liberalism in between, while simultaneously and incorrectly excluding those liberals aligned with the Republican Party or nonaligned at all ex. "I'm not a liberal I'm independent" absolute gibberish that has no bearing on American liberalism let alone global liberalism
Which is why it's better to zoom out and take into account the actual contents of liberalism, which is its reification of capitalist property relations and the atomization of the working class, which the reality of how people commonly experience liberalism politically, especially in the US
The useful content is I can say "liberal" to about anyone in the U.S. and they will know I'm referring to a set of policies broadly under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. If I say "liberal" while referring to the GOP, most will not understand my usage.
The fact that there are other definitions that (in the right context) are more precise, or useful, or coherent, does not mean the common definition isn't real, or is incorrect. It's how people use it; it's a real definition. There is no reason to refuse to acknowledge it.
You mean the set of policies that's anti-immigration today but was pro-immigration five years ago? That was anti-queer 15 years ago but is now kinda indifferent to queer people today even tho it was more pro-queer five years ago? The set of policies that was racist sixty years ago and is still pretty racist today, but people colloquially think it's not anymore, unless you're the wrong kind of POC?
Yeah that's a useful and coherent definition that totally isn't hiding the true nature of liberalism behind a veneer
I mean hey 75 million plus Trump loving dipshits believe liberalism under the Democratic Party is the new communism so it must be true. It's how people use it, right? So it's a real definition; like orks from 40k we can shift reality with our collective will, but apparently we still can't shift the set of policies
I am not arguing that Democrats are good and have consistent politics.
I'm also not going to argue any more on the premise that words are defined in part by how people actually use them. That's just how language works.
75 million Trump supporters believe liberalism is communism, go argue with them about "how language works" since you know it's according to you just a numbers game
What's your argument here then? That they were being willfully ignorant? You're accusing me of redditbrain, but your comment is incoherent holier than thou "but technically" whinging. Just shut up.
The argument is that they very obviously, very understandably used a common definition of "liberal," and the response of "let me explain something that you already know and then insist I'm right" is reddit brain.
Are you five?
They used a US misconception of the definition of liberal that didn't make sense in context - what psychic powers do you have that you managed to deduce that actually, they totally do know the normal definition, which is why they were so confused by us calling what they think of as conservatives "liberals"? For fuck's sake, even while claiming they know the definition they still can't make sense of republicans being called liberals.
Now stop being a lib and shut up.
"Me and my few friends have the One True definition of this word, that's totally how language works, and you're wrong and stupid for using the word how most people do"
Tell me more about how connected to the masses you are and how good you are at educating them
Damn, you had so many chance to back off and still decided to shoot your stupidest possible shot.
Yes, we're only using ONE definition, we haven't mentioned any alternative definitions like the one Mao uses in Combat Liberalism, and certainly haven't said that the issue isn't with multiple meanings, but the specific one they're trying to use.
Most Americans. I already pointed this one out, but the American use barely extends into other parts of the Anglosphere, nevermind the actual majority of the world - if you started talking about liberals over here in Britain people would be asking who even cares about the Lib Dems after 2012. You are not the centre of the world. Nobody cares if you say you're doing it on purpose, you are misuing the english language.
It's extremely sad that you honestly consider Hexbear.net, a site with less than 1000 daily users from around the entire world, to be the vanguard of the revolution. That you're sitting behind your computer in the honest belief that coming here connects you to the masses and spreads political education. Go outside, touch some grass, and join an org if you actually want to work on outreach, whinging in one of the most obscure possible corners of the internet is not going to achieve anything.