this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2024
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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They were just champing at the bit for an excuse to get more racist. I can't believe the utter heel turn with their border rhetoric

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1bauos4/biden_says_he_regrets_using_term_illegal_as_trump/?sort=controversial

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

We're trying to learn and make a difference here.

Agreed -- but education involves stuff like assessing people's current understanding, clearly communicating items that may be new to them, and thinking about how what you're saying is being received. A lot of folks are failing at all three here.

The original post isn't at all clear about how it's defining "liberal" (and the context it links to uses the most common definition in the U.S.). No one recognizes that the person who came in and used that common definition is doing so because of the way it was communicated. Even when that person states they already understand the different definitions, they're met with further detail on a definition they just said they already know, and are firmly told they are wrong, which itself is wrong.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Even when that person states they already understand the different definitions, they're met with further detail on a definition they just said they already know, and are firmly told they are wrong, which itself is wrong.

Except they clearly did not understand the "different definitions" and did require further detail on the ACTUAL definition, we do not need to get bogged down in the million-and-one specific personalized and incoherent configurations of liberalism, we instead look at the common characteristics of liberalism as it dwells in Existing Power and how it structures and molds the society we live in

I was describing the Titanic, you want us to describe the specific personnel arrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic, in education an accurate perspective and a sense of scale is critical for full comprehension

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

we do not need to get bogged down in the million-and-one specific personalized and incoherent configurations of liberalism

The most common definition of liberal in the U.S., by far, is "broadly associated with the Democratic Party." This is the definition used by every mainstream media source, and even throughout much of academica.

It's ridiculous to simply ignore the reality of how people commonly use words.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The most common definition of liberal in the U.S., by far, is "broadly associated with the Democratic Party."

Again, that has no useful content, it can cover anything from demoralized social liberalism, to ecstatic neoliberalism and every crank liberalism in between, while simultaneously and incorrectly excluding those liberals aligned with the Republican Party or nonaligned at all ex. "I'm not a liberal I'm independent" absolute gibberish that has no bearing on American liberalism let alone global liberalism

Which is why it's better to zoom out and take into account the actual contents of liberalism, which is its reification of capitalist property relations and the atomization of the working class, which the reality of how people commonly experience liberalism politically, especially in the US

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

that has no useful content

The useful content is I can say "liberal" to about anyone in the U.S. and they will know I'm referring to a set of policies broadly under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. If I say "liberal" while referring to the GOP, most will not understand my usage.

The fact that there are other definitions that (in the right context) are more precise, or useful, or coherent, does not mean the common definition isn't real, or is incorrect. It's how people use it; it's a real definition. There is no reason to refuse to acknowledge it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

they will know I'm referring set of policies broadly under the umbrella of the Democratic Party

You mean the set of policies that's anti-immigration today but was pro-immigration five years ago? That was anti-queer 15 years ago but is now kinda indifferent to queer people today even tho it was more pro-queer five years ago? The set of policies that was racist sixty years ago and is still pretty racist today, but people colloquially think it's not anymore, unless you're the wrong kind of POC?

Yeah that's a useful and coherent definition that totally isn't hiding the true nature of liberalism behind a veneer

I mean hey 75 million plus Trump loving dipshits believe liberalism under the Democratic Party is the new communism so it must be true. It's how people use it, right? So it's a real definition; like orks from 40k we can shift reality with our collective will, but apparently we still can't shift the set of policies

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I am not arguing that Democrats are good and have consistent politics.

I'm also not going to argue any more on the premise that words are defined in part by how people actually use them. That's just how language works.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

75 million Trump supporters believe liberalism is communism, go argue with them about "how language works" since you know it's according to you just a numbers game