177
Saudi Arabia Joins Afghanistan And Iran As One of World's Leading Executioners
(www.ibtimes.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2024
177 points (94.5% liked)
World News
39023 readers
2401 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
And? It’s better than filling up prisons and treating the prisoners as slaves. Some people just cannot be rehabbed, so ending their life is a respite to all. Finally, it sends the ultimate “fuck around and find out message” which is needed to keep potential criminals in check. Not sure what the obsession with no death penalty is.
Note: not defending the Saudi Royals because they deserve the death penalty themselves.
Brother how twisted do you have to be to think that all the people executed by Afghanistan Iran and Saudi Arabia actually deserve to die? I mean you have to know what those countries that people are getting murdered for the most innocuous things. You just have to.
You must have to have read the last line of my comment. You just have to.
Because you will wrongly execute people. It is not a matter of if, but of when and how often. There is no standard of proof good enough to be perfect. And the more effort you put in to try to be sure, the more expensive it is, so it winds up not even being cheaper.
There's not even any actual evidence that it's an effective deterrent. People don't do things like that with the expectation of being caught.
It sounds like there’s an acceptance of a broken system that doesn’t remediates wrongful conviction. If wrongful conviction is the problem, we need to go fix that. Expense and cost shouldn’t be a factor when human lives are at stake and justice shouldn’t be measured via money.
The point is that you can't remediate a wrongful conviction if the person that was wrongfully convicted is dead. It's awful to wrongfully imprison someone, but if you do then at least you can let them out.
If you've got any ideas on how to make a perfect justice system that makes no mistakes, please do share. Nobody else has ever managed it, and not for a lack of trying.
Even if you do manage to solve this unsolvable problem, what's the benefit to executing people? Like I said, there's no proof that it's an actual effective deterrent. There isn't an elevated rate of heinous crimes in places that don't have the death penalty.
That is one of the main reasons I’m against the death penalty. There is no way to correct a wrong decision Also I think it’s cruel to hold someone for 30+ years then execute them.
To me it’s vengeance and not justice
Different people. The one you're replying to didn't make the first comment
Oh boy, is that why I edited it to be blank?
Ahh, that edit hasn't made it across to my instance yet. I see it if I go to yours
What I’m saying is that the chances of wrongful conviction shouldn’t arise. Ever. That should be how serious we should be rooting out systemic inequalities. If a society is actually just, wrongful convictions become a non issue. Does that mean that it won’t ever occur? No, but the chances are significantly decreased to where the ones that do occur have the legal frameworks in place to prevent and minimize such occurrences. Perhaps additional appeals, considerations, pardon process from victims etc.
Think of it something like airline regulations, where the process is so stringent, that every single incident is analyzed, learnt from and guarded against in the future. I bet you, that if we were really serious about this, we can collectively solve it. We’ve solved it for space travel, airlines, medicine and countless other fields with implications far beyond what we can cover here. All it takes is collective willingness.
The benefits:
In terms of proof of ineffectiveness, can you point me to some research?
From "Deterrence and the Death Penalty" by Daniel S. Nagin, John V. Pepper, and others:
Right, well in reality they do. Everywhere. And it should be pointed out, your initial comment was that you don't see a problem with Saudi Arabia executing people in the present; do you think that Saudi Arabia has this perfect justice system already?
You know people still die from all three of those fields all the goddamn time, right? Even in spaceflight, the one with by far the fewest operations in which something might happen, we're fewer than ten years out from the VSS Enterprise crash that killed Michael Alsbury
Purported benefits in order:
Thanks for the link. Here’s my counter:
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence
I will concede, until I look into this further that on face value maybe capital punishment isn’t as effective deterrent as I initially thought. That said, deterrence via capital punishment is one small piece of the problem. So let’s not lose sight of the main point here. Capital punishment literally has irreversible consequences, which means we need laws to be upheld. Just because it’s norm to have wrongful convictions, doesn’t mean we should accept that. That is the ultimate problem we need to go chase, not capital punishment. Focusing on capital punishment is deflection from systemic injustices. So when articles like this come out pointing fingers, my response becomes… “And?”
Maybe re-read my initial comment stating that I do not believe what Saudi is doing is correct either. A differing opinion =/= implicit agreement with a regime. Wtf?
So that’s it? Society stops trying? What sort of asinine view is that? Fear of failure should not impede progress. This also applies to laws, regulations, legal frameworks etc.
If we aren’t subsidizing prisons, we can afford it. Although your claim seems far fetched as defacto statement. Costs seem to be variable depending on state, conditions, sentence type etc.
Says you. Go ask the parents of the kids that died in Uvalde massacre on what they want done with the murderer.
Accountability of our own laws, enforcement and the justice system… it’s thing you know.
Are you sure this is the link you were looking for? It literally has a header saying "There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals."
This is no less true without capital punishment. We shouldn't and don't stop worrying about wrongful convictions for other punishments.
One of the two is actually possible to solve immediately and basically for free. If you get rid of the death penalty then there is nothing taken away from any other effort to improve the justice system and ongoing miscarriages of justice become less severe. Do you think that everyone gave up worrying about miscarriages of justice in the over 100 countries that don't have the death penalty?
There are also other points against the death penalty even if you assume it is being used only in a justice system that makes literally no mistakes. How do you know who can and can't be rehabilitated? Who carries out the executions, and what are the effects on them? Do you actually want the state to hold the power of death over its own citizens?
I read it just fine. You said you're not defending the Saudi royal family. That doesn't mean that you're not rejecting criticism of the system. And if you are trying to say that, it is really odd to have started the comment by dimissing the whole article with "And?"
No? How the hell did you get to that? Society should recognise that it cannot do these things perfectly and act with that in mind, like by not using something so permanent as execution as a punishment.
"We can afford it" is a much weaker position than "it will save money over the alternative", because it permits execution being more expensive. If execution if more expensive - and in the US, it is - then you can put more money towards rehab by not doing it.
I'm literally asking you for data to support your point. I'm not sure how the parents of the kids at Uvalde would have a particular opinion on what they want done with the murderer considering that he was shot dead at the scene though.
Are you suggesting that it isn't a thing in countries that don't have the death penalty? I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.
I’ll get back to you when I’m near a computer.
The main problem with the death penalty is the number of people who have been found to be not guilty years and decades after their conviction.
You just can’t be 100% sure that someone’s guilty - even if they confessed or there were witnesses because people lie. Nowadays even video evidence can be faked.
“Beyond a reasonable doubt” isn’t a good enough bar to meet to take someone’s life in my opinion.
Nothing in life is absolutely certain. Heck even the next few mins aren’t guaranteed. Just because you’re not “absolutely certain” doesn’t mean we go easy on a serial rapist, or a school shooter. Like I stated in my other reply, if a broken system is a problem, we should go fix that instead of incurring the running costs of for profit prisons filled with those that deserve to not live anymore.
So you're saying that the government should have a profit incentive to LITERALLY KILL PEOPLE. That sounds like a great idea! I'd love to live in a country that decides to kill you because they want to save a few bucks.
Dude… re-read my comment.
Definitely inexcusable crimes solvable only by capital punishment.
Oh, look, a note stating that I’m not defending Saudi’s actions must have slipped by your buttons for eyes.
The article is about the Saudi government killing lots of people. Arguably, for ridiculous crimes.
You made a comment playing down the seriousness of capital punishment.
Then tried to cop out by saying you weren't defending Saudi royals.
Help me understand, what exactly was your point, then?
Look at the other essays I’ve posted detailing my points. Read more, talk less. Makes you looking a raging idiot.
There's one raging idiot in here and its definitely not the tot.
Yep. How’s it feel being one?
LOL If that's the best you can come up with as a clap-back welcome to the party, dumb ass.
Lol @ you thinking you’re anything worth more than a shit to me.
You're a clown.
Says the clown that thought they were special enough to be more than a shit. Sorry to have burst your bubble. Have a good day.
Butthurt and a 🤡 -- good combination
There's a load of people who have ended up on death row wrongly.
If that can happen, it should be abolished, because it will result in murder of innocent people.
There is absolutely no evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent to crime.
If we were to say your comment was a sin and required punishment would you rather we put you to death or put you in a work camp?
We can say that you can go fuck yourself if you’re not going to discuss something and throw snark around like a 10 yr old. :-)
What's that you say? I couldn't hear you dropping insults about 10 year olds over all the snark in here.
Figured you’d have trouble understanding. Keep trying there little fella. You’ll get it!
I hope you have a good day, genuinely you need the break.
See? We can all be civil. Have a good day.
Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be correlation between having death penalty in law and lower crime rate. Many countries without death penalty or with death penalty only "on paper" have lower (serious) crime rates than those with death penalty in their jurisdical system. It could also be said that death penalty leads to heavier crimes since once criminal realizes that he crossed that line, it no longer matter how heavier crime gets but hope of getting out over the death bodies becomes the variant too.