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Kentucky senate passes bill granting right to collect child support for fetuses
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024
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'Only stupid people reproducing' rhetoric unfortunately is veeeery close to eugenics talking points
Not at all. Everyone should be entitled to a safe, healthy life no matter their traits or attributes. Restricting people's reproductive choices is insidious and people can't be trusted to do it properly, even if there was a 'fair' way to do it. It doesn't stop conservatives from constantly doing just that, though.
What I am getting at is, the more stupid laws that get passed to 'punish' people for having sex, the more people on the end of the spectrum that have good critical thinking skills will choose to delay or avoid having kids in that place that's making the stupid laws. It's strictly about incentivizing behavior through policy.
That's all true and fair. And I'm certain that's part of the plan of Republicans. That doesn't mean we have to also think the way they do about it. It creates a narrative of reproduction of certain people being less desirable as that of others. While that doesn't restrict those people's reproductive rights per se, it creates an ethical conundrum about who should and shouldn't reproduce. Again, I'm sure rightists believe those things, but aren't we above that? It also reinforces the narrative that things like rational thinking skills are genetic rather than the result of education or lack thereof, which is a wholly separate issue that also has to be solved. Can't we focus the discussion on this, simultaneously making sure more people realize what we perceive as intelligence is mainly an issue of education and not much of genetics?
That's all true and fair as well. But I think you're arguing against a point I wasn't trying to make. I never wanted to imply there was a 'should' group and a 'shouldn't' group. I don't believe the government (or the church) has any business in how many kids someone has. I do believe that laws like this add to the pile of reasons certain groups of people will delay or refrain from having kids at all. I know because I'm in that group.
The education part is a whole other conundrum, and you seem to feel that has a much bigger impact on the situation. I agree with you, if so. Access to a good education is the real equalizer in life, if you can say such a thing exists.
Great discussion!
Sorry I phrased it in a way that made it sound like YOU were saying certain groups should or shouldn't have kids. What I'm trying to say is that I personally feel like even just pointing out that something is making more 'stupid' people reproduce keeps the narrative of who should or shouldn't have kids alive, even if that's not the intention. I think we should try to let that narrative die. But yeah I think we agree about pretty much everything else. I know it's a big current problem that people delay or even refrain from having kids. And I find it quite heartbreaking, I'm very sorry you have to consider all this in your family planning.
All I'm trying to say is maybe we should consider how we speak about these issues, because prejudiced individuals and groups could read it like we're agreeing with their prejudice, which reinforces their prejudice. I hope I'm making sense? We're trying to say republicans are trying to keep the masses dumb, and by this we mean they like that those who can't access the education necessary to form critical thinking skills are having kids who also won't be able to access this education. But without this clarification, it could sound like we're saying that certain people having kids leads to a dumber population, which is good for rightists and bad for us. Am I being overly cautious maybe?
And yes, that is what what I was trying to say about education being a driving factor!
And yeah, I'm enjoying this discussion too!
I’ll go with the over-cautious …. Maybe we’re phrasing it inappropriately, but it’s still an important point. The more difficult we make it to have and raise children, the more likely they’ll be parented by those with the least choice, the least resources, the least options.
And I’ll even say yes, it will lead to a dumber population. theres no reason this is genetic, although I suppose that’s possible. Children raised with poor nutrition, lack of morals, disrespect for education, inadequate support for their future, parents unable to dedicate sufficient attention to children, etc ….. is that functionally different from a dumber population? It’s not our business to decide who can raise a child or how, but we can help them provide adequate nutrition and care, adequate healthcare and education, we can make sure they have opportunities if they’re willing to take it. We can help make it easier for parents to raise their kids well, and we can help that child to see opportunity as a functioning citizen….. is that functionally different from a smarter population?
I don't think there are many people here who think the solution is for stupid people to stop reproducing, rather that our education system stop producing so many stupid people.
I didn't specify in my original comment that you replied to. This is exactly my thinking. I just worry the original phrasing might be playing into eugenicists cards and feel we'd be safer if we specified that we mean exactly what you said.