the_dunk_tank
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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I will maintain that Lucas' comparison of "Rebels as Viet Minh" is restricted to Return of the Jedi, and mostly has to be with them operating in a forest. Other than that, they're the US fighting the Empire's Nazis in WWII.
George definitely had the Viet Minh in mind during ANH. George was way more recently out of college then and the war had just ended. Luke's role in the final product goes from all kinds of serial sci fi ideas to being essentially a young man of military age who has little future available, but has no real stake in the empire winning. Even wanting to join originally, despite hating it, because he sees it as his way out, an inevitability. Only for the empire to butcher his family and make him have to contend with the reality of fascism. The rebels in ANH are not exactly the viet minh, but Luke is for sure meant to be a kid who joins SDS. Remember Lucas was drafted for Vietnam but exempt due to diabetes which was genetic, having killed his grandpa. So he was saved from joining something evil, by chance and a prior family tragedy.
Looking at the earlier drafts Luke is just not that kind of character. I think last second having to bail on apocalypse now! made him approach Luke from a different perspective.
This is not to say it is a great allegory, I never liked the ROTJ part of it, it plays into bad liberal stereotypes about the Vietnamese
George is alright sometimes. There's an interview where he basically says the USSR allowed more artistic freedom to create art.
Well that quote is pretty rock-solid, being from someone other than George Lucas, so I'll concede I was wrong. I will say that him flip-flopping on the origins of Darth Vader in your other link is a good example of why I thought he flip-flopped on this too; he just strikes me as that kind of guy.
I actually do agree with Lucas saying this stuff prior to around 20 years ago is true. I haven't done a deep dive on it and a lot of good sources make the claim, and his connection to AN drives it home, but there is a lack of statements from him during that era. And yeah George is like Stan Lee without the plagarism
Nope. It was the case in the first star wars as well. George Lucas was going to direct Apocalpyse Now but ducked out semi reluctantly to make his own thing which ended out being Star Wars. If anything by return of the jedi he was at his most capitalist shitbrain phase. Sf debris did a great multi part series about George Lucas called the heros journey, shadows journey and hermits journey that really get into the dude and his rise and fall. It'd very well researched and paints a pretty tragic picture, he thought every compromise.eould be the one that let's him buy his way out of the industry and get full creative and financial freedom to make a state of the art film school and stuff and then the corporate obligations that come with that slowly destroyed those dreams. He's a dude with a lot going on under the hood.
So the Nazis had taken over the whole globe (galaxy) and forced the US to hide and move between planets with secret bases and poorer weaponry?
If you substitute "western europe" instead it makes more sense, secret bases and poorer weaponry works for partisans. The US/allies in general are more represented in the space battles. I'll admit it's messy and doesn't map one to one, but the Vietnam War parallel is hardly perfect either (the empire is a domestic force, not a foreign occupier, for instance). See my other longer response as well.
Eh Viet Minh were under occupation by the US backed ROV so that checks out to some degree. Plus for Endor at least, they are fully foreign occupiers as with Tatooine
There's a copypasta from wayyyu back about a group playing a star wars ttrpg in public when an old ww2 vet and his wife take an interest, they explain the basics of Star wars and the dude replies 'so the rebels are the French resistance and the empire are space nazis?" He gets a yup from the group, joins in and becomes squad leader. It's one of those probably fake but damn I hope it's true ones.
I’ve read that one before, if I recall correctly the vet was a British commando.
I’ve never seen him mention the comparison is such a specific way. What makes you think that?
I've never seen an interview before maybe 20 years ago where he makes that claim at all, but I'll admit that something could exist and I could just be wrong. Anyway, to start I'd say that Star Wars is generally apolitical: the big evil empire follow the ideology of being evil and want to control the galaxy because they are evil, the rebels are the good guys who fight for good. As a result, looking to the text for political parallels isn't really possible, instead leaving us with the much mushier realm of vibes and aesthetics. To run through some points:
The one easy counter I'll concede is that tie fighters are clearly an analogy for carrier-based planes.
So Vader might actually come from a jock Lucas went to highschool with. Meet Gary Vader https://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/12/01/the-origin-of-darth-vader-the-name
That surprised the hell out of me cause of all the other sith names, I figured it was just short for 'invader'sinxe the other bad guys had names based off evil sounding words, Maul, idiots (like insidious), tyrannus. I guess he just made up.that theme after.
Yeah when Vader is named he is very much not Luke's father. The connection is retroactive but Lucas sorta ran with it and made it a Sith thing by the time he got to Sidious
Lucas does super on the nose naming a lot in general and it's just a surprise Vader was a real guys name and not just an example of that. Weird coincidence. Maybe it's what gave him that ideas which eventually led to General Grievious
The tie in novels for ANH make it clear Darth Vader is just his name. Darth isn't a title, it's his first name.
Yup. It is clear in the film itself. Obi-Wan repeatedly calls him "Darth" like it is his first name. The Obi-Wan show even tried to play with that by the end with Obi-Wan calling him Darth once he is sure Anakin is truly dead or rather chose to be this