this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2023
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I'm gonna tell you fascists
You may be surprised
The people in this world
Are getting organized
You're bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose

Race hatred cannot stop us
This one thing we know
Your poll tax and Jim Crow
And greed has got to go
You're bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose.

All of you fascists bound to lose:
I said, all of you fascists bound to lose:
Yes sir, all of you fascists bound to lose:
You're bound to lose! You fascists:
Bound to lose!

People of every color
Marching side to side
Marching 'cross these fields
Where a million fascists dies
You're bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose!

I'm going into this battle
And take my union gun
We'll end this world of slavery
Before this battle's won
You're bound to lose
You fascists bound to lose!
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Still relevant today sadly, as it looks like the fascists are winning.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I feel like the saying "nothing to fear but fear itself" is appropriate here. In part because fascism is a mental illness triggered by an overabundance of fear, but also due to the fact that fascism if contained is self-defeating.

A fundamental feature of fascism is the continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, their enemies are simultaneously a powerful cabal that runs the world and genetically inferior untermensch. It's impossible to for the fascist to adequately assess the ability of their enemies; their propaganda demands an unreasonable uncertainty. The core of fascism is a profound lack of understanding, both of the world at large, and of accurate self-knowledge. It is not coincidence they are lead by narcissists and driven by an obsession with impossible conspiracies.

They have no solutions to the causes of the problems affecting the people, and rely on scapegoating to draw attention away from this. And as they begin to run out of scapegoats, they must create new ones from within their own body. A fascist regime can never ultimately win, it will always discover new enemies to further cannibalize itself. It is the ideology of self-destruction.

Success in fascism comes from the eager collaboration from liberals. Germany before Hitler had immense labor power and military expertise. As the war drew on, Hitler trusted his generals less and less, and took more and more control of the details of governing of the country. He made so many unforced errors that it was determined by the allies that further assassination attempts on him would be counter-productive to a swift end to the war.

Fascists can win just as much as cancer can win. If it reaches its natural conclusion, it dies with its host. We have much more experience dealing with fascism; we know how to defeat it. Tyranny doesn't succeed on the virtues of the totalitarians, but the failures of the liberals. Narcissistic leaders like Donald Trump will continue to waste their resources and undermine their movement. No matter how much they appear to succeed, they are bound to lose; but the damage they do with each success means we need to fight regardless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d argue that fascism shouldn’t be classified as a mental illness, but a social one. Mentally ill people deal with enough stigma for things we don’t control. People choose to be Nazis. They don’t choose to be suicidal. Please don’t make “mental illness” a catchall for “bad”; we have enough problems already without that. Most of your other analysis seems pretty accurate, but empathy needs to be the core of anti-fascism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm incredibly sympathetic to your point. I agree that fascism is a social illness, in the sense that it's a mental dysfunction with a high potential of social contagion.

But I believe fascism should be classified as a mental disorder. It is much more illuminating when trying to understand fascist behavior, and is much more effective when engaging with fascists. This is especially true in comparison to the status quo, which is to treat it merely as an ideology, similar to capitalism or communism. When you see a fascist as someone with an addiction-based behavioral disorder where the focus of their addiction is power, their individual behavior and group history make much more sense.

I believe fascists should be opposed with violence, but the most humane and effective solution in the long term to exterminating fascism is to eliminate food insecurity, provide housing for all, and free medical support for both physical and mental ailments. The opposites of these things are sources of fear that plague all people, and in addition to this fear metastasizing into fascist movements, it is also an influencing factor in a number of other anti-social behaviors and mental afflictions. I believe if we can survive this era of fascist contagion and build an egalitarian society, we can solve the problem of fascism completely. I think there's a precedent for this in the role that scientific public education has in curtailing disappearing penis delusional disorder, for example. Many mental disorders have strong social and environmental components, and can be mitigated with social and environmental solutions.

My classification is not a rhetorical flourish, meant to attach the stigma of mental illness on to a group I personally abhor. It's the observation cribbed from Umberto Eco that ideologies of a type have tenets of their platform in common, but fascist movements don't have any broad principled agreements -- not between each other, and even fundamentally change their own stated tenets given time and motivation. Instead they're easier to identify using symptomatic features. The implication is that fascism is a disorder masquerading as a philosophy.

My opinion is also bolstered by Bob Altemeyer who studied authoritarian personalities in a clinical setting. His research makes a very good case that people with particular temperaments are predisposed to be more susceptible than others to fascist leaders and ideas, and that fear is a trigger. His freely available book The Authoritarians is a very illuminating read.

I don't blame you for assuming from context that my statement was an insensitive slur. I hope this essay somewhat convinces you that it comes from a place of empathy, even for our enemies. I do want to clarify that empathy for the victims of fascism takes priority over empathy for fascists, and energy should not be spent recuperating fascists when it could be more effectively used to defeat them and protect their victims. But ultimate victory over fascism means understanding its causes and sources, and that requires viewing fascists as people also.

Psychiatry has a blind spot in its focus on making people 'better-adjusted' to living in a crapsack world. Mental healthcare is provided usually when a disorder causes productivity problems at work. I think our classification of fascism is hampered because the delusions of individual fascists usually don't reduce their traditionally-measured productivity in a workplace environment.

Thank you for standing up and speaking out for people with mental illness. Social stigmatization of mental illness is a subject I have a little knowledge about, but I don't have a personal connection to it, and am interested in your feedback on my admittedly unconventional position. I hope clarification in my defense doesn't discourage you from speaking up again in a similar context. Empathy and this type of solidarity definitely need to be the core of anti-fascism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As someone who has spent decades living with severe mental illness, I think your stance will both kill innocent people and ruin the lives of many that survive. It was hard enough dealing with the stigma (even in medical settings) before the culture decided that becoming a mass shooter had to mean you had a mental illness. Now that we’ve decided every bigot with a gun and a vendetta is “mentally ill,” things are even worse. And now you want to make our lives even harder by lumping Nazis in with us? Tribalist hate shouldn’t be in the same category as depression; they are fundamentally different phenomena. I don’t think you have any concept of the harm this would do to people who are already vulnerable. Besides, if you think Nazism is a mental illness, are you arguing that most of Germany simultaneously developed the same murderous mental illness for a decade or so in the 20th century? Really?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks for replying; I'm still developing my understanding of how to navigate this area of ideas with care.

How do you feel about drug addiction being classified as a mental illness? Do you feel that pharmacological alterations to the brain belong in the same category as depression and suicidal ideation? Would things be easier for people struggling with depression if there was a different category for addiction-based dysfunction that separated the two more distinctly in the public consciousness?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It might be easier for people suffering from other mental illnesses if addiction were in a different category, but addiction isn’t something you choose. You may choose to try a substance, but no serious scientist holds addicts morally responsible for their addiction in the way we hold murderers or Nazis responsible for their actions.

An example of how things are already hard enough for us: https://www.propublica.org/article/they-needed-mental-health-treatment-mississippi-threw-them-in-jail

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow, excellent lesson. Are you a history teacher, or have you simply read up on the subject?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks. A bit of reading, listening, and discussion with people wiser than me.