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submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago

The word "leadership" is pure ideology, it is a concept with zero rigor that urges us to accept that some people are inherently better than others and deserve their elevated position in society.

[-] [email protected] 40 points 7 months ago

I'd push back on that, some people are better leaders than others and in a pinch there will always be people who are better able to guide a group through a challenging situation. Of course the people promoted as "leaders" under capitalism are more like petty tyrants than actual leaders. Most great leaders I know IRL are working class people who genuinely care about others and will help out without any expectations for a reward

[-] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

It seems like "leadership" combines a bunch of different skills like being a good spokesperson, or a good organizer, or a good strategist that don't necessarily have to reside in the same person. You do need all those skills gathered somewhere like an executive committee, though.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

"Leader" is a word invented by the bourgeois class to replace "noble" as a justification for their position at the apex of a pyramidal society. It's such a universal concept that in Spanish, they only started using "líder" as a loanword in the past few decades.

Most great leaders I know IRL are working class people who genuinely care about others and will help out

I don't understand what concept you're trying to convey. Is a leader a person who exhibits a display of class? Is a leader someone who cares about someone else? Is a leader someone who helps other people? Or are you using the example to describe an opposite, that a leader is someone who enriches themself at the expense of others?

I have a good idea of what a spokesperson is. And what a parliamentarian is. And what a teacher is. And what a strategist is. I have no fucking clue what a "leader" is.

[-] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago

leader is just literally a person who leads, it could be dictatorial or democratically.

you are being very strange right now

[-] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

This is why the left has so few leaders… and the government assassination and incarceration

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Having one "leader" that you roll all the executive functions or skills of power into, and who just does all those things while a bunch of "followers" do none of those things, is imbalanced and vulnerable.

If you have 1 leader, the government or counter-revolutionaries can easily assassinate, incapacitate, blackmail, bribe, or compromise that leader, and you can kiss your progress goodbye. If you have a council of the highest roles in different domains that are distributed amongst several people, it's much harder to compromise, the payoff is less, and a compromised figure is almost automatically replaced.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Having one "leader" that you roll all the executive functions or skills of power into, and who just does all those things while a bunch of "followers" do none of those things, is imbalanced and vulnerable.

ideology, even in the most stratified socialist society the position of 'leader' is very democratic

[-] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

I suppose I'm using "leader" as a rough synonym for organizer, in that they are able to motivate other people toward a goal and direct collective action

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

But is that really one unitary thing, or is it like the concept of intelligence, where there are a lot of different measurable capacities that all get rolled into one, and we think about it as one single concept because we are accustomed to using the word for that concept?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Isn't that just how words work? Most concepts can be broken down into component concepts

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Some concepts, not all. I'd say not even most.

We start out in the dark and we make associations between things and this develops our understanding. Eventually we can put a picture together from all the linkages, or reach a true elementary foundation. But we don't start from knowledge.

Sometimes we have words for things, like ether and phlogiston, that are based on our assumptions and work for a little while as heuristics, but further and rigorous investigation reveals that they were inaccurate inventions of our own minds.

Anyone who's acquired a second language, or been immersed in a different nation's culture, or studied anthropology, learns that there are some things that don't carry over very well. It's the concepts that are neither universal nor quantifiable nor specific that I look into as candidates for dissolving.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

In the associations I’ve worked with, all committees and boards have a designated ‘leader’. The role of a leader is to know how everyone is doing, to resolve internal conflicts, to organise and direct the meetings and to take over any task of a member who is not able to fulfil theirs. I would say that a good leader has a somewhat high emotional intelligence and has a broad skillset in order to be able to take over other peoples tasks. The leader is usually the one who puts in the most energy because ideally they are on top of everything that’s going on.

I’ve seen a lot of people doing a terrible job at it though because they think that their job is to just be assertive and motivate the other members to do their tasks, which is what the media often describes as ‘good leadership’.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

I'd be willing to bet those boards also had a "secretary" and a "vp/co-chair" and a "treasurer" and possibly other positions, because "the one person who runs everything in the organization" is both too much for one person to handle, and doesn't allow people to specialize as well.

You have described a "leader" as a Social Connector, a Conflict Resolver, a Parliamentarian, and a Generalist. Why should these all be one person, instead of separate people, so they can all do a better job of their thing?

they think that their job is to just be assertive and motivate the other members to do their tasks, which is what the media often describes as ‘good leadership’.

Sounds like there are many divergent and incompatible definitions of "leader" and "leadership".

Thinking about the Cabinet of the executive branch also informs my thinking. Joe Biden is a perfect example of how all the departments would run just fine without him. Yet he is the foremost leader in the land.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

You make good points, I can see how an organisation can work with the tasks I described subdivided into equal roles. And it might be more democratic that way. To me it doesn’t discredit the meaning of the word leader though. Words often don’t have a single definition that works for everyone, and I agree that this word has lost its meaning in general. But in the associations I mentioned the word does have a clear meaning as I described. So in some contexts I do think it makes sense to use it.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

I agree with this just because it makes people think more about stuff they take for granted

[-] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

dude some people are better at some things, while others are better at different things

some people can lead, others can put together space shuttles

you are being very strange

[-] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

improve-society "We have been implicitly accepting the idea of 'nobility' that has no demonstrable empirical basis in reality."

very-intelligent "People are better at different things. Some people are fit to rule, others are fit to put together cathedrals."

[-] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Broke: From each according to need, to each according to ability.

Woke: Actually, everybody is exactly the same.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Broke: Ruthless critique of all that exists.

Woke: ...except for the idea of "leadership", which I am particulary attached to.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

When I was a little kid, a few students in my cohort were selected for a "leadership camp". I never knew what went on there. How did they practice leadership without any followers at the camp? Were some of them secretly invited to be followers? Do I have to listen to them when they get back?

[-] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

I was sent to one of those.

I don't know the answers to any of those questions either.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Which makes more sense?

  • a distinct skillset of oratory
  • a distinct skillset of abstract thinking about objectives and outcomes (strategy)
  • a distinct skillset of teaching
  • a distinct skillset of managing dialogue
  • a distinct skillset of coordinating people in real time
  • a distinct skillset of mediating and resolving disputes between group members
  • Leadership, which is some mishmash of all or any or none of the above, we say it's a skill but there are no good tests or even any quantitative metrics of it
[-] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I can say for certain that none of the leadership things I've been roped into have been about any of the things you listed under #1.

Maybe "abstract thinking about objectives and outcomes" but that appears to be more, like, a thing that justifies "leaders" existing, rather than something they actually do. If I start actually talking about that sort of thing with leaders they get weird about it.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Comrade, do not let the liberal desire for middle managers that boost the bottom line taint the concept.

Those whose passion and unwavering loyalty to the people earn their place, they are not inherently better due to blood or class.

Ho Chi Minh, who led a revolution not just against the Japanese Empire, but the French and American Empires, too.

Lenin, who led the Bolsheviks to victory to establish the great Soviet Union.

Sankara, whose short tenure liberated Burkina Faso.

Leaders are able to inspire and direct the fury of the proletariat to a better future with charisma, knowledge and integrity. It's easy for greedy to be corrupted, it's easy for the cowardly to surrender, it's easy for the unwise to be defeated. It is difficult to sacrifice comfort to fight for a slight chance at liberation.

Against overwhelming odds, leadership is necessary to survive, let alone emerge victorious.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

None of those people lived in a vacuum, their success is, like all things, circumstantial and influenced primarily by the work and effort of other people. Yes, Lenin did a lot of good, but we focus on him primarily because he was just coincidentally in the position that granted the most attention. Nothing he did could have been done without the work of hundreds of party members other than himself.

Do not confuse criticism of leadership as a concept with criticism of organizers. Someone who is more willing and more able to organize people together is a very real phenomenon, as with all skills; but “leadership” implies an elevated position, a worthiness above the average person. This is not real, because like all conceptions of worth, we made it up.

this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2024
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