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Some wonderfully bonkers sovereign citizen ID. (lemmy.world)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You have to prove your own nationality of another country and also pay your tax bill before the US Gov will let you expatriate. So for a few years you'll end up paying double taxes to do it. Wherever you're trying to gain nationality and taxes in the US.

https://www.goldinglawyers.com/how-to-expatriate/

From the article is pasted below

If a U.S. citizen seeks to renounce their citizenship without proving that they have citizenship in another country, they are referred to as “stateless” and may not be approved for expatriation.

Generally, the U.S. citizen will travel to a foreign consulate and submit Department of State forms 4079-4083. The U.S. citizen will also undergo an exit interview — and most consulates require that the U.S. citizen to return back to the consulate after the initial appearance for the second interview/meeting, either as a cooling-off period and/or an opportunity for the consulate officer to review the paperwork. Different consulates handle this process “differently” depending on which foreign country the expatriation takes place. At the end of the process, once the expatriate has been approved for expatriation, the citizen will receive a stamped form DS-4083, which is referred to as a certificate of loss of nationality.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

No, you don't. Most countries require you to have citizenship in another country before renouncing your citizenship. The US is not one of them. Americans have the right to make themselves stateless if they choose.

They will warn you that becoming stateless is a bad idea, but they won't stop you. Per the state department's website:

Persons who contemplate renunciation of U.S. nationality should be aware that they will experience a great deal of hardship unless they already possess a foreign nationality or are assured of acquiring another nationality shortly after completing their renunciation. In the absence of a second nationality, those individuals would become stateless. As stateless persons, they would not be entitled to the protection of any government. They might also find it difficult or impossible to travel as they would probably not be entitled to a passport from any country. Furthermore, a person who has renounced U.S. nationality will be required to apply for a visa to travel to the United States, just as other aliens do. If found ineligible for a visa, a renunciant could be barred from the United States. Renunciation of American nationality does not necessarily prevent a former national’s deportation from a foreign country to the United States as an alien.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Furthermore, a person who has renounced U.S. nationality will be required to apply for a visa to travel to the United States, just as other aliens do. If found ineligible for a visa, a renunciant could be barred from the United States.

But where would they deport you to? Antarctica? The ocean? The moon?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The airline doesn't allow you onto the plane. The US doesn't allow you off of the ship. And God help you if you think you're getting through the Mexican border.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ok but assuming you're in the US to begin with. Do you get to stay for lack of a place to banish you to?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Maybe to the shadow realm? Maybe all this time those paranormal spooky ghosts sightings were not dead people but just stateless

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Either direction!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

A person who is a national of the United States whether, by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily...

making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state

You have to be outside the US to renounce. Deportation is not the US's problem.

But yes, that's one of the big issues of statelessness they can't send you back anywhere.

Edit: second half the quote was not formatted as a quote. fixed

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Interesting. I wonder what they would do with someone who renounced citizenship while outside of the US, but then somehow smuggled their way back in.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Guantanamo bay. Probably

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Hell yeah, free moon ride!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

If you don't want to be considered stateless, also you need to pass your exit interview. Both require citizenship in another country