this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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Posting what I said on this in another thread-
So, this decision is really bad for reasons that go beyond sick workers. It’s really unpopular to mention but COVID isn’t over, it’s not gone. We just normalized the suffering and shunted the most vulnerable into its path. As one of those vulnerables still trying to survive, masking has been an exhausting situation. I mask, I have to, and antimask sentiment makes it hard to operate in a world that already wishes I wouldn’t. Decisions like this cause harm in wider ways. I wrote an email to In-N-Out Owner/President Lynsi Snyder about this in response to this policy. I don’t think she cares what this policy does, but I’m sharing here for others who may want to understand.
I’m writing to ask you to please reverse your recent decision to ban employees from wearing a mask unless medically exempt. This decision shows not only a complete disregard for the health and safety of your employees and customers, as everyone is affected by disease spread, but is also profoundly ableist and lacking an understanding of current (and historic) context. Requiring employees to not only divulge their medical information to their employers but also openly to the public is a mindset rooted in othering people who are disabled or otherwise medically vulnerable. In general, it’s bad when a marginalized group must publicly declare their status as such, but especially now when people are already struggling to survive an ongoing pandemic amidst the hostility of antimask sentiment. This decision furthers that othering and hostility, making those employees into targets. But this decision doesn’t just impact your employees directly, it feeds into that larger cultural antimask sentiment and perpetuates ableism. This lack of understanding of the impact of your decision is a clear message that it’s not just those employees your company does not value, but all disabled and vulnerable people. Please show your abity to learn and understand the impacts of your decision, as well as your disapproval of ableism, and reverse this decision. Further, I urge you to demonstrate actual value for your employees and customers by adapting to our reality and implementing measures to reduce the spread of covid and other pathogens in your restaurants and other workplaces. This can be achieved through simple measures like improving the ventilation and filtration in buildings, improving sick leave policies, and other actions including, yes, masking by employees.
Thank you Xxx
PS This company push to ignore our current reality and new cultural understanding of disease spread is not just callous, it’s boring. Be better.
That isn't what happened. We developed highly effective vaccines that keep you from dying and reduce your chance of serious illness and/or long covid. Hospitalizations for COVID have absolutely cratered faster than cases have. Like, the rule they made is fucking stupid, they deserve to eat shit over it, but you don't have to completely mischaracterize what we did as a society in pushing back against employers being shitty to their employees.
COVID isn't the only disease passed by aerosolized droplets. The availability of a COVID vaccine is irrelevant.
My feelings are this: if anyone feels like they should wear a mask, I absolutely want them to wear one. Whether that is for their risk from the public, or their risk to the public, if they think it's needed, it is needed. Err on the side of caution.
Agreed, particularly on the point of want to wear mask, do so. Let's take back what freedom means. Also, I work in vaccine development, primarily focused on respiratory diseases for oh these short 20 years. We all get all the recommended vaccines because we understand what that means. About 30% of us still wear masks, and are always allowed to join meetings online instead of in person.
I'm not mischaracterizing I'm illuminating an issue many have overlooked. Yes, the vaccines are effective against most variants at reducing serious illness and death for many. But they aren't preventing infection or long term impacts from infection, have waning effectiveness, and there are many for whom they aren't effective enough or at all (those vulnerables I mentioned). Many are still dying every week and last info we had showed in the US about half of those dying were vaccinated.
This part is mostly a rant- Covid (and others diseases) disrupts lives and can cause serious medical complications for many, yes even now. Those people's needs have largely been ignored, now and before covid. We have a better understanding of how disease spread impacts everyone and how we can prevent it. We learned these lessons at the expense of millions of lives and instead of honoring that and implementing changes to better all our lives we're squabbling over inefficient vaccines that many won't take. I'm pro vaccines, but they're currently not a solution to covid.
What if the vaccine isn't effective with your body? You're not allowed to protect yourself?
Of course you are.
CDC stopped reporting on covid in May. More people are dying from clogged arteries than covid right now.
And? People get sick from other airborne illnesses too, no person or company should ever be able to prevent someone from doing something that protects their body from injury. Banning masks, bathroom breaks, water breaks, etc, it's all the same shit fucking sandwhich
Weird how nobody gave a shit about that before... hell nobody gives a shit about that now. I can count the number of people ive seen this month wearing a mask with 1 hand. I see hundreds of people a day and the only people that ive seen wearing masks wear it under their chin anyways. Tired of all this virtue signaling, nobody fucking cares
Yea, no one cares about disabled and vulnerable lives. That's the point, that's what we're trying to convey. Thanks for clarifying for yourself.
Yes, nobody cares about disabled and vulnerables lives. So much that the only people that care are internet kids who say to boycott a place they probably dont even go to.
Why are you pro an environment in which your life isn't valued, and so bothered by people who aren't?
Im bothered that this is such a stupid thing to get your dick caught in a blender for. Its as stupid as boycotting a beer company for lgbt support or boycotting Twitter for having Elon as a CEO. Its all childish fugazi anger directed at pointless bullshit
So wait, are you telling me when the government made you wear a mask in public spaces that was infringing on your freedoms and it was okay for you to get your dick in a blender, but when in and out tells people they can't wear masks, it's childish fugazin anger directed at pointless bullshit? Why don't you mushroom heads ever stop to think how stupid you sound crying about your freedoms and crying about other people having normal discussions about their freedoms. Go free yourself.
Lol i think you are too used to reddit arguments that you think everything is polarized. Most regular people agree with me. You dont see them at office places, you dont see them at stadiums with thousands of people, you dont see them at the club, you dont see them on subways.... why should these essential workers need to wear masks when nobody, not their mom nor their grandma nor the nursing homes nor fucking anyone else give a fuck.
Why are you so dumb that you think regular people agree with you, when most regular people actually don't give a shit about whether or not other people want to wear a mask? Do you get your dick in a blender over whether or not people you don't even know wear a helmet on a bike? Or do you live in some shitty town with population 2000 and think that somehow your experience reflects the other 350,000,000 people in this country?
Most regular people think you're a pathetic dumbass who doesn't even think for yourself.
While your sentiment is valid, try not to sink to their level. There’s no need for name calling to make your point.
I don't consider it stoopping to their level, it's pointing out how stupid they sound so others reading might actually think about it before blindly agreeing and parroting. These people don't deserve our tolerance any more, they've had plenty of time to have an actual original thought by now.
Living in the small town of San Diego but i travel for work with sister sites globally. But obviously i am the one that doesnt see enough people so forgive me.
The very fact that you think you, as an individual, have the capacity to determine what the general public's opinions are based on your experience, means you either have super powers or you're completely unaware of the fact that you don't even have the capacity to remember enough people to get a reasonable sample of how people feel, you're unaware of cognitive biases, and you don't understand numbers. If you managed to actually talk to every single one of the 1.382 million people in San Diego and get their opinion on this random subject most of them probably haven't even thought about, you would be sampling 0.4% of the population of the country.
? Why would i need to poll san diego for their opinion when i can see what they do? I can go to downtown SD right now and i will see maybe 1 in 10000 people wearing a mask. But either way its a dumb hill to die on to think that if you dont wear a mask you are not caring about certain people who do.
Do you even remember what you were saying? Because that's not it
As a heads up, I would request that both of you refrain from continuing this conversation. I say both, as I've temporarily banned @[email protected] from here for their conduct throughout this thread.
I've received multiple reports calling them out as a troll, and on review of their posting history in other communities, I'm fairly confident that they're mostly a meme/shitposter (I mean literally, many of their more recent posts are to /c/shitpost or meme communities) with some unpopular opinions and a lack of tact, to put it nicely. If after the ban expires they come back & reply here continuing to argue and/or respond rudely, report their reply (or replies) and I'll simply make the ban permanent.
Note, I don't agree with the way they've conducted themselves here, hence the temporary ban. I've only refrained from a permanent ban because reviewing some of their comments elsewhere indicates they're not in the habit of trying to stir shit up. For whatever reason this thread got them into all these back & forths.
Understood and appreciated
They shouldn't be banned from wearing it, doesn't matter if most people don't wear them anymore. In fact, I'd argue that most people not wearing masks is a great reason why vulnerable people SHOULD wear masks, and now those who work in a place that's banned them have to choose between their health and their job. People do give a fuck, just not you.
Have you wondered why you don't see people masking in the settings you mentioned? Maybe because people stopped caring, so the people who do care, who need to mask, have been further marginalized and pushed out of public life?
Uh huh
Why do you feel this isn't a worthy issue to care about?
Because its not
Why do you feel like disabled and vulnerable lives aren't worthy?
Good strawman
This decision and our society's response to the pandemic is a demonstration of ableism, the systemic devaluing of disabled and vulnerable lives. This is the entire discussion being had here, if you're unable to grasp it read through again or ask questions.
Dont know if you havent heard but Biden said the pandemic was over in september of 2022. You are about 10 months behind.
Everyone should stop feeding this troll. Just add him to your block list and move on. He’s not worth your time or anger.
User banned and entire chain removed by mods...
So don't bother banning, because the moral police will show up and do it for you. Can't be having any wrongthink here.
Not a good sign... Is there some other place for displaced redditors that doesn't include censorship?
(I'm not implying jack shit about the actual topic, I'm commenting strictly on the grooming of content)
Your being downvoted... but if we were actually worried about everyone's health, we'd shut down all fast food and ban sugary sodas. Health only matters when it doesn't affect the $$$ flow of the rich.
They're being downvoted because it's not a good comparison that's relevant to this topic, it's a distraction and a tired, oft repeated one to boot. Poor diet is not a communicable airborne disease.
Everyone here is getting their panties in a bunch about protecting people from covid when i could die just as easily from the flu. Nobody is making a case about wearing a mask because of the flu though, its about covid. Why are you guys trying to force this.
I don't think you, or anyone regardless of perceived health, should die to flu either. Again, why do you want a society in which your life has no value?